Premium Member blackout Posted March 29, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 29, 2019 11 hours ago, mossrider said: Since we keep upping our game and pushing harder I decided to finally add a steering damper, if only for peace of mind. Better safe than sorry I guess. Also putzin around with the intake plumbing. I got a few looks trotting my cart around the neighborhood on a test run, probably looked like a transient, lol. Is it race day yet? That's a good place for the damper. The forces are directed to the central mass of the bike. Not mine, it's all up front. 2 Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) Just now, blackout said: That's a good place for the damper. The forces are directed to the central mass of the bike. Not mine, it's all up front. I see lots like this trackside. A lot of rotary dampers too which act on the steering head like this. Sall good. Packaging is a pita some times and finding space can be tough. I had to move a bunch of wiring and crap to fit the damper on this side. I had to move more junque on the other to fit the intake tube. Edited March 29, 2019 by mossrider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted March 30, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 Hey Mossrider..... I've been away for a couple months working in AZ. I really like the new paint scheme!!! Was that done by Ryan Fors??? I'll miss track riding this season, but hope to get back to MN in time for the 5-hour in September. Good luck- keep it "rubber-side-down". 1 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Just now, cornerslider said: Hey Mossrider..... I've been away for a couple months working in AZ. I really like the new paint scheme!!! Was that done by Ryan Fors??? I'll miss track riding this season, but hope to get back to MN in time for the 5-hour in September. Good luck- keep it "rubber-side-down". William Miller (willmill) did the paint. He's a fellow track rat and paint and body guy, one of at least 3 great painters there, Ryan, Shane Sivertson and Will. They have tracks down there you know. Be careful down there and we'll see you for the big5! Edited March 30, 2019 by mossrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 30, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 4:04 PM, mossrider said: I see lots like this trackside. A lot of rotary dampers too which act on the steering head like this. Sall good. Packaging is a pita some times and finding space can be tough. I had to move a bunch of wiring and crap to fit the damper on this side. I had to move more junque on the other to fit the intake tube. Looks like I will be swapping my damper left to right to make room for the cold-air intake hose. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Just now, blackout said: Looks like I will be swapping my damper left to right to make room for the cold-air intake hose. I've fiddled with it both inside and outside the fork tube. There is room either way, just depends on what, if any, interference there is to steering inputs, fairings and whatnot. I think it'll be fine either way. Here it is inside, just had to flatten the tube a little but it should be essentially the same interior dimensions. Either way you'll have to move things like your ecu, voltage regulator, various wires, blah blah. It is easier on the right however due to imovable items on the left like the throttle cables and linkages, fuel lines and motor mount. Edited March 30, 2019 by mossrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 What happens with that hose when you turn bars to right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Here is how I did damper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, twf said: What happens with that hose when you turn bars to right? Not much, I've tried it and when it's elongated like it is the fork tube just bumps it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 30, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, mossrider said: I've fiddled with it both inside and outside the fork tube. There is room either way, just depends on what, if any, interference there is to steering inputs, fairings and whatnot. I think it'll be fine either way. Here it is inside, just had to flatten the tube a little but it should be essentially the same interior dimensions. Either way you'll have to move things like your ecu, voltage regulator, various wires, blah blah. I can route my tube around the outside of the frame since the R6 bodywork is pretty wide. I like how your clutch cable is routed. I tried re-routing mine for smoother bends, but could not do it unless it was 1.5" shorter. There was just no room for the extra slack of the cable to go. Why is your dash zip-tied? Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Mossrider, if you want to move that regulator I have bracket to mount it to the side of the engine and out of the way. Was to post pic but looks like last one reached my limit for pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Here is regulator 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Just now, twf said: Mossrider, if you want to move that regulator I have bracket to mount it to the side of the engine and out of the way. Was to post pic but looks like last one reached my limit for pictures Thanks but I have a couple and got it out of my way. That ones nicer tho. Edited March 30, 2019 by mossrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Here is ECU. Other side of that bracket has ears for those sensors hanging around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Here's full lock each way and centered, Right Left Center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 30, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 Mossrider, I'd run the hose on the outside of the forks if you can. While total cross-sectional area stays the same, the change in shape could affect flow a small amount. 1 Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, blackout said: Mossrider, I'd run the hose on the outside of the forks if you can. While total cross-sectional area stays the same, the change in shape could affect flow a small amount. I am planning to but wanted to see if it would fit and function inside. It fits in my bodywork outside the fork tubes. If time permits I'll try it both ways on the dyno. Because, if I don't, someone will ask why not or claim I should have done this or that or that oval is or the earth is flat or that Dino oil is, sorry ...lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 30, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 Andy cut his fairing inlet to ram more air. The modern supersports are this way as well. The opening is large at the fairing and then narrows to a smaller hole that normally is built into the frame. More packaging constraints. Of course, once the air gets past the frame it's already in the airbox. We are plagued with an engine oriented like a dirt bike. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Just now, blackout said: Andy cut his fairing inlet to ram more air. The modern supersports are this way as well. The opening is large at the fairing and then narrows to a smaller hole that normally is built into the frame. More packaging constraints. Of course, once the air gets past the frame it's already in the airbox. We are plagued with an engine oriented like a dirt bike. Right but research suggests that beginning the tract with any kind of funnel or bell shape at intake causes a net drop in pressure as the air is forced to accelerate. If you look at a pro-stock dragster or jet engine intake they start smaller and balloon after the air is captive to create a drop in air speed thus an increase in pressure, which is what we are after. Ideally we want the highspeed airflow to stop at the fairing front (stagnation point) and convert it's kinetic energy into pressure. Then in an instant it (minus the air picked up by our intake) follows around the fairings where it once again accelerates, loses pressure and acts like air over a wing. I think if we have a problem it may be the sheer length of the intake tract, well, other than stupidity and those bb's in my boxcar, lol. Edited March 30, 2019 by mossrider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 31, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, mossrider said: Right but research suggests that beginning the tract with any kind of funnel or bell shape at intake causes a net drop in pressure as the air is forced to accelerate. If you look at a pro-stock dragster or jet engine intake they start smaller and balloon after the air is captive to create a drop in air speed thus an increase in pressure, which is what we are after. Ideally we want the highspeed airflow to stop at the fairing front (stagnation point) and convert it's kinetic energy into pressure. Then in an instant it (minus the air picked up by our intake) follows around the fairings where it once again accelerates, loses pressure and acts like air over a wing. I think if we have a problem it may be the sheer length of the intake tract, well, other than stupidity and those bb's in my boxcar, lol. Interesting, I guess you did do research. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 3:24 PM, scratchpad said: Looks like our motors are very similar, if not the same build. I have a different intake set up then you do though. Going to the tuner tomorrow with the MA spec VP MGP. We'll see the outcome. What did you end up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 3 hours ago, mossrider said: What did you end up with? It is the one I sent you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) So here's the 2019 season opener. For details of the ram air dyno tests please check that thread. Here I thought I would show the different iterations of each race motor as they progressed each year for comparison. These runs are of course the finished tunes of each motor variation. I forgot to add the first, stock motor, flash, pipe and pump gas, it was 70ish hp. Instead I added 2 with the decked head, one on pump gas, one on VP u4.4. The red trace is flash, pipe & decked head on pump gas w/pc5 added to ease life trackside. The blue same motor with u4.4 race gas season 2 on this bike. Approx. 75-76hp. Purple is flash, pc5, web cams, decked head and pistons on Sunoco spec fuel. This is season 3 and what we grenaded at Road America last spring. Approx 87.5hp. Yellow is a stock eBay replacement with the salvaged cams from the blown motor. We ran this at Pittsburgh in Sept at MotoAmerica. Approx 81hp. Green is this years secret Suzuki destroyer. Bored tb's, ported head, web cams, pipe on VP spec fuel. Approx 88.5hp. Very nice spread of power with a detailed tune on it, should pull like a Brahma. All runs (45 in total over 3 years) are on the same dyno, with the same person running it for a good comparison. Cheers Edited April 5, 2019 by mossrider 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted April 5, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted April 5, 2019 On 3/30/2019 at 4:44 PM, mossrider said: Right but research suggests that beginning the tract with any kind of funnel or bell shape at intake causes a net drop in pressure as the air is forced to accelerate. If you look at a pro-stock dragster or jet engine intake they start smaller and balloon after the air is captive to create a drop in air speed thus an increase in pressure, which is what we are after. Ideally we want the highspeed airflow to stop at the fairing front (stagnation point) and convert it's kinetic energy into pressure. Then in an instant it (minus the air picked up by our intake) follows around the fairings where it once again accelerates, loses pressure and acts like air over a wing. I think if we have a problem it may be the sheer length of the intake tract, well, other than stupidity and those bb's in my boxcar, lol. This why I stay in the "shallow-end" with Mossrider........ My head hurts just trying to understand where he is at - ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) One BIG thing I forgot to mention and it's a factor that many, many people overlook trying to make cost saving decisions: Merely bolting together an assemblage of performance parts, add on's or machine work does not guarantee success. You MUST get it properly tuned or you're wasting your money! After putting together all this seasons upgrades and simply getting the motor running, the first dyno pull showed about 81hp. Nice 11hp improvement over stock right? Wrong. After getting it properly tuned (proper map via flash or pc5, air/fuel, spark, ignition timing and injector timing) by a qualified technician on decent equipment it was up to 88.5hp! That's 7.5hp (70% more) left on the table w/o the tuners skilled hand. Go see a pro. period. Edited April 5, 2019 by mossrider 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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