scratchpad Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, jb.junior said: It was supposed to be one of those "guaranteed" motors from a proven seller. That's exactly how it was presented to me -- seller promised videos of it running. I repeat -- again -- it is simply unacceptable, by statute, civil decree, and general ethics, to simply say, "well, that's how I got it -- deal with it." Again, I would never do this to someone. So if there's any "lessons" here, I hope that one is that people should feel confident in dealing with me getting a fair deal in secondary market transactions, and should exhibit caution in dealing with this seller. NOT ONCE did i promise videos of it running. All one has to do is read the text from me to you which you already posted on here to figure that out. After a certain period of time one cannot access history on ebay. I was letting you know the person i bought it from on ebay had videos of it running. Not once did i say - deal with it. Nor has Zoran. "should exhibit caution in dealing with this seller" Really? This thread is proving you have bad credit by the story telling you are coming up with. 1 hour ago, jb.junior said: And it's not even relevant, but once you factor in eBay fees, and free shipping costs (which I had to pay), the price paid for this engine is indeed comparable to a guaranteed running one on eBay. I chose to buy this one from a fellow racer because I thought it there was an increased sense of protection and security and that it would be good and safe to "keep it in the community," but apparently, it's the opposite. What makes you now think you would be getting a guaranteed running engine from ebay? Im calling B.S. Heres a guaranteed running engine from ebay $2700 15-17 FZ07 ENGINE MOTOR REPUTABLE SELLER VIDEO! *899 MILES!* Removed From: 2016 Yamaha FZ07. We disassemble any motor we can't prove works well! Most motors over 300cc require freighting... Heres another guaranteed engine for $2500 98% feedback and a K&N filter installed 2018 YAMAHA MT-07 ENGINE MOTOR 99999-04404-00 Removed From: 2018 Yamaha MT-07 with miles. The motor runs strong and shifts through all gears smoothly. Never raced or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 BTW the one for $2700 is missing a Throttle Body boot in the main picture. Doesnt say if the spark plugs are loose though. In the 5th picture you can see the oil filter looks like its been cranked on with a big pipe wrench. /sarcasm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Hausknecht Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Oy Jeff. As an initial matter, consumer protection laws do not apply to the private sale of used goods. You can look it up if you'd like or take my word for it; I was a very busy attorney for over 35 years. Additionally, I've seen seller's add 2016 Yamaha FZ07 Race Bike | 13x Forums 2016 FZ07 LWT Superbike Race Package - MotoAmerica Legal 4908 miles - Only ridden to church on Sundays by a slow old guy . Oil and... and all he states about the motor is "Stock motor (ebay)". Not sure where you get the idea it was "guaranteed", or that seller offered to provide you with video of it running or that he guaranteed you it was in running condition. As I understand it, neither seller nor his agent (Zoran) ever put it in a bike so I can't imagine anyone offered to send you a video of it running. And you and they knew it didn't have a cam chain tensioner; so clearly it wasn't in running condition when it was shipped to you. Buying used stuff always entails some risk, especially parts that have from a crashed vehicle (which is to say, virtually all used motorcycle engines). You pay your money, you take your chances. Assuming you could buy a motor, that clearly wasn't in operating condition when you got it, and just stick it in your frame and go racing was high risk and didn't pan out. I don't know you or seller. Seems to me he has been fair and honest with you. I don't see you helping your cause at this point by continuing to post on this matter. Its a long race season. I wish you the best of success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, scratchpad said: NOT ONCE did i promise videos of it running. All one has to do is read the text from me to you which you already posted on here to figure that out. After a certain period of time one cannot access history on ebay. I was letting you know the person i bought it from on ebay had videos of it running. Not once did i say - deal with it. Nor has Zoran. "should exhibit caution in dealing with this seller" Really? This thread is proving you have bad credit by the story telling you are coming up with. What makes you now think you would be getting a guaranteed running engine from ebay? Im calling B.S. Heres a guaranteed running engine from ebay $2700 15-17 FZ07 ENGINE MOTOR REPUTABLE SELLER VIDEO! *899 MILES!* Removed From: 2016 Yamaha FZ07. We disassemble any motor we can't prove works well! Most motors over 300cc require freighting... Heres another guaranteed engine for $2500 98% feedback and a K&N filter installed 2018 YAMAHA MT-07 ENGINE MOTOR 99999-04404-00 Removed From: 2018 Yamaha MT-07 with miles. The motor runs strong and shifts through all gears smoothly. Never raced or... “I never sent you a text saying it was a running engine… no no no, I meant to only inform you that the guy that I bought it from told me that it was running, which, in turn gave me the confidence to buy it. You, see there’s a difference. I didn’t write that to imply that it’s running now, even though I hadn’t done anything with it since. No, no no.” Weasel statement. Simply a weasel statement. Why even write me tell me that you were of the understanding that it was running when you bought it? If you had any integrity, you would’ve said, “I never inspected this engine and have no idea what condition is in and is being sold as simply I may be running or parts engine”. You said none of that. You implied it was running, and and give me no notice that maybe it wouldn’t be or that I should expect something different. What a different engine cost at this point is irrelevant. You sold me an engine and conveyed it as running, and it isn’t. You’re telling me it’s just a head gasket, when in reality you don’t have a clue what’s wrong with this engine as you never took the time to look at it. And now I’m on the hook for all of that and always asking for an additional couple hundred dollars. for you to say well, “even though sold you something that wasn’t as portrayed, it’s still cheaper than the alternative.” That’s just no ethics whatsoever. Edited February 5, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, jb.junior said: “I never sent you a text saying it was a running engine… no no no, I meant to only inform you that the guy that I bought it from told me that it was running, which, in turn gave me the confidence to buy it. You, see there’s a difference. I didn’t write that to imply that it’s running now, even though I hadn’t done anything with it since. No, no no.” Weasel statement. Simply a weasel statement. Why even write me tell me that you were of the understanding that it was running when you bought it? If you had any integrity, you would’ve said, “I never inspected this engine and have no idea what condition is in and is being sold as simply I may be running or parts engine”. You said none of that. You implied it was running, and and give me no notice that maybe it wouldn’t be or that I should expect something different. What a different engine cost at this point is irrelevant. You sold me an engine and conveyed it as running, and it isn’t. You’re telling me it’s just a head gasket, when in reality you don’t have a clue what’s wrong with this engine as you never took the time to look at it. And now I’m on the hook for all of that and always asking for an additional couple hundred dollars. for you to say well, “even though sold you something that wasn’t as portrayed, it’s still cheaper than the alternative.” That’s just no ethics whatsoever. You asked me for details on the engine. Would you like me to post our texts on here for the universe to see? I can do that. I looked for the paperwork, couldnt find it. Went to ebay to get the details you asked for. I rarely use ebay and the purchase of the engine was over 2 years ago so when searching through ebay under my purchases come to find out it is not accessible any longer so the only details from what i remember were what i texted you. Thats all i remembered. You asked for them right? Or did you not? Again, where am i now telling you its just a head gasket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said: Oy Jeff. As an initial matter, consumer protection laws do not apply to the private sale of used goods. You can look it up if you'd like or take my word for it; I was a very busy attorney for over 35 years. Additionally, I've seen seller's add 2016 Yamaha FZ07 Race Bike | 13x Forums 2016 FZ07 LWT Superbike Race Package - MotoAmerica Legal 4908 miles - Only ridden to church on Sundays by a slow old guy . Oil and... and all he states about the motor is "Stock motor (ebay)". Not sure where you get the idea it was "guaranteed", or that seller offered to provide you with video of it running or that he guaranteed you it was in running condition. As I understand it, neither seller nor his agent (Zoran) ever put it in a bike so I can't imagine anyone offered to send you a video of it running. And you and they knew it didn't have a cam chain tensioner; so clearly it wasn't in running condition when it was shipped to you. Buying used stuff always entails some risk, especially parts that have from a crashed vehicle (which is to say, virtually all used motorcycle engines). You pay your money, you take your chances. Assuming you could buy a motor, that clearly wasn't in operating condition when you got it, and just stick it in your frame and go racing was high risk and didn't pan out. I don't know you or seller. Seems to me he has been fair and honest with you. I don't see you helping your cause at this point by continuing to post on this matter. Its a long race season. I wish you the best of success. If it doesn't state that it's "not running," or, "parts only," "needs work," "as is," or something similar, then it's implied to be running. Why have say that they saw a video of it running, which in turn, gave them the confidence to buy it, and convey that information to me? It is a misleading thing to do as that implies the engine is in working order. If you're going to tell someone that you bought the engine because the eBay seller from whom you bought it had videos of it running, then you should probably verify that it's running. Or at least say that you never tried to run it. (Or, that it was used at a time for taking spare parts). Some kind of heads up; some kind of disclosure. There are indeed laws and rules about this. For example, what if I had a motorcycle for sale, and this engine was in it. And I sold this motorcycle, and didn't disclose the state of the engine, that I had taken parts of it, or did not know the engine's state before I put it in, let's say by accidental omission, and someone filled it with water and realized the engine was a mess. Would the buyer not be upset? Would they not have a claim? Isn't it implied that when you buy a used motorcycle or car or cell phone or pencil sharpener, that it's implied to be working unless otherwise stated? Of course. For some reason, there seems to be at least a minority consensus that buying a motorcycle engine from a racing forum is exempt from these standards. And I think that's bullsh*t. I did not know really where a cam chain tensioner is, and I did not realize it was missing until we put the engine on the frame and started to install. Yes, this was in the photos, and yes, I missed that. I've already taken responsibility for that. The seller did say that they had taken it out, apologized for not mentioning, we came to an agreement, I ate the vast majority of costs, and it moved on. It wasn't until we filled it with water and water came out of the head that we realized that it wasn't just a matter of a one off mistake of taking the cam chain tensioner off and forgetting to mention it, but that this engine had actually never been examined or looked over, and potentially had major problems, and may not even work at all. And that I was to assume all of that risk. I've bought plenty of used engines and never had one not run. Edited February 6, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, scratchpad said: BTW the one for $2700 is missing a Throttle Body boot in the main picture. Doesnt say if the spark plugs are loose though. In the 5th picture you can see the oil filter looks like its been cranked on with a big pipe wrench. /sarcasm/ And here's a parts engine, which is a much better comp, for $750. 2018 Yamaha MT-07 Engine 99999-04404-00 bad valves 2018 Yamaha MT-07 Engine 99999-04404-00. And those other engines you posted were all asking prices. If you look at actual, "sold" items, it's closer to $2,100. Which, when you factor in that I paid shipping, and you weren't subject to 11-13% eBay fees, is about right ($2,075 *.88 - 309 = $1,549). For a guaranteed running engine. Not the parts engine that I got. So my ask for an additional $500 return, you getting $800 for a parts engine, seems fair Edited February 6, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 28 minutes ago, jb.junior said: And here's a parts engine, which is a much better comp, for $750. 2018 Yamaha MT-07 Engine 99999-04404-00 bad valves 2018 Yamaha MT-07 Engine 99999-04404-00. And $730 for shipping. Starved of oil meaning there is nothing good inside. That one you definitely don't want to buy, not even for parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, twf said: And $730 for shipping. Starved of oil meaning there is nothing good inside. That one you definitely don't want to buy, not even for parts. How do we know that the engine that I bought from the seller wasn't starved of oil? Maybe there's nothing good inside of it. Someone obviously pulled the head and loosened every bolt for a reason... That's the "buy it now" ask price. If I bid $499 and got it, I could get it picked up myself for probably around the $309 that I just spent. So $802. Edited February 6, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Just saying that example is bad. Your engine you can return, I doubt you do same with that one and there are no even $802 worth of parts there. Engines like that I don't even bother opening, they go straight in to garbage. That right there is reason we had spare engine sitting in garage. Just in case. As for your post we should have verified our engine was running, only way to do that was to put it in frame and run it and I told you we never did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 So Jeff Bean puts a new head gasket on, the engine is now running and he puts in a claim against me with paypal for $720. His claim states "he needed his motorcycle running ASAP and he was promised a working engine", and "i needed to make this engine work cause i was in a hurry". Like your career and/or life depended on this engine? Or was it so you could go racing? None of that really matters though other than your built up story telling. So obviously Jeff Bean really wanted to keep and have this "non running", " starved of oil", "parts" engine because the last conversation we had through texts was that we were to coordinate shipping the engine back for a full refund to him minus what we already refunded. Well, his last text to me was a threatening. "send me $500 or else". Haha! You're a real special piece of work Jeff. If this dont tell you what kind of something special he is i dont know what will. https://www.gofundme.com/f/getjeffracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 "$300 would maybe be a fair amount to take the head off and check the gasket and replace the bolts, but how about the risk of whatever else has been done with this engine that we discover once we get the head off? " Those are your words from your post on page 4. You shouldve accepted the additional $300 since it was fair for exactly what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 23, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just now, scratchpad said: So Jeff Bean puts a new head gasket on, the engine is now running and he puts in a claim against me with paypal for $720. His claim states "he needed his motorcycle running ASAP and he was promised a working engine", and "i needed to make this engine work cause i was in a hurry". Like your career and/or life depended on this engine? Or was it so you could go racing? None of that really matters though other than your built up story telling. So obviously Jeff Bean really wanted to keep and have this "non running", " starved of oil", "parts" engine because the last conversation we had through texts was that we were to coordinate shipping the engine back for a full refund to him minus what we already refunded. Well, his last text to me was a threatening. "send me $500 or else". Haha! You're a real special piece of work Jeff. If this dont tell you what kind of something special he is i dont know what will. https://www.gofundme.com/f/getjeffracing This situation is just sad..... Most racers I know are pretty easy going? This isn't the case here. I don't really understand the thought process of running a stock motor in MA in the first place? "Mr. Bean" likely spent more on his wheels than he did a motor? That is beside the point... You seem like you really tried to accommodate. He was offered a full refund.... Some people just can't be pleased. Wish you the best- 2 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, scratchpad said: So Jeff Bean puts a new head gasket on, the engine is now running and he puts in a claim against me with paypal for $720. His claim states "he needed his motorcycle running ASAP and he was promised a working engine", and "i needed to make this engine work cause i was in a hurry". Like your career and/or life depended on this engine? Or was it so you could go racing? None of that really matters though other than your built up story telling. So obviously Jeff Bean really wanted to keep and have this "non running", " starved of oil", "parts" engine because the last conversation we had through texts was that we were to coordinate shipping the engine back for a full refund to him minus what we already refunded. Well, his last text to me was a threatening. "send me $500 or else". Haha! You're a real special piece of work Jeff. If this dont tell you what kind of something special he is i dont know what will. https://www.gofundme.com/f/getjeffracing Aaron Tulchinsky: $720 was more than a fair claim -- it would have been a lot (lot) more at most shops, and I didn't even make a claim for everything. You got off pretty easy. To begin, the labor was a subsidized amount of what it actually cost. The labor hours were at a very low rate -- not even half of what most places charge. The labor portion was $493 -- try to get all that work done anywhere for that amount. $228 for parts and shipping was what it cost -- I have receipts for everything. Oh, it was, "just a head gasket" -- how do you know? You don't. For one, even if it was "just the head gasket," it's a very expensive procedure and requires myriad other gasket and bolt replacements to remedy. Pull out the Yamaha manual, and you'll see. (But of course you haven't, as you're just jumping to conclusions.) And there was a lot of time and effort into inspecting nearly the entire thing to make sure it's ok to try to run. And even after all that time and inspection and putting it back together. Test runs revealed.... that there turned out to be a lot more wrong with the engine that I didn't even bill for! You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Would you like me to make an add-on claim, for EVERYTHING else? because I'd be happy to. For one, the left side engine / stator engine had road rash and leaked oil from the gash (and this gash was NOT shown in the sale pics, FYI...). I had to spend even more time and more money to get this replaced and sorted out. And: after brief more testing -- the bike started overheating! So MORE troubleshooting, MORE cost and MORE lost time and progress dealing with that. It turned out to be that the thermostat was bad, and I had to replace that too. Do you want me to add that on as well? I have photos, videos, etc. of all this happening that I'm happy to send to Paypal as an addendum, if you'd like. And that's not even the end of what's wrong with it. But I'll save the rest for later if needed. I never said that this particular engine was "starved of oil;" you're being lazy and daft in saying that. But I certainly did say that it wasn't running -- which it was not. Do you refute that? Again, I paid $1,500 for what I was led to believe was a running engine. You can interpret, embellish or dislike my reasoning for wanting a running engine running ASAP -- it's irrelevant. The facts are that I received an engine that was not running. And it turned out the engine was of unknown condition and of unknown history and ended up having all kinds of other problems. I was willing to take that on risk and moving on for $500. You said $300, and we disagreed. So I took my chances and paid the costs and time to inspect it and make it right, even thought it's still not right. So I think you are responsible for paying a portion of that. It ended up being way more than $500, and I submitted a claim for $720, which is still an extremely fair charge, considering that total actual cost was way more than that. Go ahead and get a quote for a total top end tear down, inspection, valve checks, new gaskets, engine cover, thermostat, etc. I bet it's closer to $1,400 - 1,600. I never "threatened" you -- that's a lie. I said, how about we just end this now for $500, or instead it just keeps getting dragged out and more complicated. Which it has, so I was right. Go ahead and screenshot and post. You ignored that message and haven't sent me a cent. It was left unresolved between us, so, yes, I escalated it to Paypal. You stopped responding to my messages. This is what Paypal dispute resolution is for -- for issues like this. If you're on the side of right, then there's no need to pout here; things will work out in your favor. If I'm such a liar and my claims are untrue, then the truth will come out. I can only interpret your behavior here as uncertainty of this. Edited February 23, 2022 by jb.junior Engine cover replacement pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just now, jb.junior said: Aaron Tulchinsky: $720 was more than a fair claim -- it would have been a lot (lot) more at most shops, and I didn't even make a claim for everything. You got off pretty easy. To begin, the labor was a subsidized amount of what it actually cost. The labor hours were at a very low rate -- not even half of what most places charge. The labor portion was $493 -- try to get all that work done anywhere for that amount. $228 for parts and shipping was what it cost -- I have receipts for everything. Oh, it was, "just a head gasket" -- how do you know? You don't. For one, even if it was "just the head gasket," it's a very expensive procedure and requires myriad other gasket and bolt replacements to remedy. Pull out the Yamaha manual, and you'll see. (But of course you haven't, as you're just jumping to conclusions.) And there was a lot of time and effort into inspecting nearly the entire thing to make sure it's ok to try to run. And even after all that time and inspection and putting it back together. Test runs revealed.... that there turned out to be a lot more wrong with the engine that I didn't even bill for! You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Would you like me to make an add-on claim, for EVERYTHING else? because I'd be happy to. For one, the left side engine / stator engine had road rash and leaked oil from the gash (and this gash was NOT shown in the sale pics, FYI...). I had to spend even more time and more money to get this replaced and sorted out. And: after brief more testing -- the bike started overheating! So MORE troubleshooting, MORE cost and MORE lost time and progress dealing with that. It turned out to be that the thermostat was bad, and I had to replace that too. Do you want me to add that on as well? I have photos, videos, etc. of all this happening that I'm happy to send to Paypal as an addendum, if you'd like. And that's not even the end of what's wrong with it. But I'll save the rest for later if needed. I never said that this particular engine was "starved of oil;" you're being lazy and daft in saying that. But I certainly did say that it wasn't running -- which it was not. Do you refute that? Again, I paid $1,500 for what I was led to believe was a running engine. You can interpret, embellish or dislike my reasoning for wanting a running engine running ASAP -- it's irrelevant. The facts are that I received an engine that was not running. And it turned out the engine was of unknown condition and of unknown history and ended up having all kinds of other problems. I was willing to take that on risk and moving on for $500. You said $300, and we disagreed. So I took my chances and paid the costs and time to inspect it and make it right, even thought it's still not right. So I think you are responsible for paying a portion of that. It ended up being way more than $500, and I submitted a claim for $720, which is still an extremely fair charge, considering that total actual cost was way more than that. Go ahead and get a quote for a total top end tear down, inspection, valve checks, new gaskets, engine cover, thermostat, etc. I bet it's closer to $1,400 - 1,600. I never "threatened" you -- that's a lie. I said, how about we just end this now for $500, or instead it just keeps getting dragged out and more complicated. Which it has, so I was right. Go ahead and screenshot and post. You ignored that message and haven't sent me a cent. It was left unresolved between us, so, yes, I escalated it to Paypal. You stopped responding to my messages. This is what Paypal dispute resolution is for -- for issues like this. If you're on the side of right, then there's no need to pout here; things will work out in your favor. If I'm such a liar and my claims are untrue, then the truth will come out. I can only interpret your behavior here as uncertainty of this. We were to coordinate shipping the engine and all parts back and you would receive a full refund minus the $200 that was already refunded. You and i were on the same page with that after not coming to terms with what extra money you wanted or any additional funds i was willing to refund. Then came the ultimatum and/or threatening text from you. Thats when the communication stopped from me. It wasnt a green light for you to pay someone to tear down the engine, modify it, replace parts and then file a claim/bill me for your lack of competance. Had you texted and said the engine is ready to be shipped, i would have responded and it would have gotten worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Just now, scratchpad said: We were to coordinate shipping the engine and all parts back and you would receive a full refund minus the $200 that was already refunded. You and i were on the same page with that after not coming to terms with what extra money you wanted or any additional funds i was willing to refund. Then came the ultimatum and/or threatening text from you. Thats when the communication stopped from me. It wasnt a green light for you to pay someone to tear down the engine, modify it, replace parts and then file a claim/bill me for your lack of competance. Had you texted and said the engine is ready to be shipped, i would have responded and it would have gotten worked out. We were never on the same page. I bought a what was represented as as working engine ("I saw videos of it running on Ebay"), you sent a mess. I needed a working engine ASAP, and I had two options: try to make this one work, with some kind of reasonable compensation from you, or return it to you, which would have entailed: waiting for you to get around to arranging shipping , however long that would take, pull the engine from the bike, pack it up, wait for shipping, and then [hopefully] get a refund, waiting days for it to clear, then starting from scratch finding a new engine, waiting on shipping, install it, etc., all over again. The former option seemed the only feasible, given my constraints. We started a reasonable negotiation, but you escalated things publicly here with personal attacks, accusations of mistruths and misrepresentations. That's was missing between those last few texts. My last text was by no means a threat, it was a peace offering, of sorts, to end the mess. And you ignored it. If you had answered, maybe we could have ended up somewhere in the middle. But you took it here instead. And I never even mentioned you when I first wrote in this thread about the engine having problems. It wasn't meant to "call you out" or anything like that. You went off and decided to dramatize it. Re-read it. I never once used your username. And I never once insinuated that any of it was on purpose or malicious. What was I supposed to do in a thread about a bike build: pretend that my engine wasn't f*cked? "Cover it up?" You came screaming out of the gates defensive and confrontational. And man, what was the difference between you paying me $500 and keeping $1,000 for an engine that needed a lot of work (scenario "a"), or, scenario "b:" paying to ship it back (at least $309, what I paid), and paying for labor and parts to fix it yourself? In scenario "a", you gain $1,000. Scenario B: $1,500 - 309 return shipping = $1,191 $1,191 - $228 parts to fix the head= $963 $963 - $ xxx labor to fix the head = $400?? And THEN, $400 more to fix the engine cover and new thermostat...and the other things that I haven't revealed are wrong with it = $0? You likely gain nothing. Nothing. What were you possibly thinking? To just resell it like that again knowing it was bad? Part it out? Honestly, what was your plan? Did you do any analysis on this at all? Even now, because I went so light on the claim, you'd still walk about with $780 ($1,500 - $720 claim). For a totally wack-ass engine that I took the all the risk and (sort of) made work at an excessive cost because time was important to me. So you'd rather forgo $780 (which could have been $1,000 until you blew it up) to end up with a liability that would have left you at $0??? Edited February 23, 2022 by jb.junior grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Jeff Bean, J.J. , jb.junior, JBJR Racing, GoFundMe so i can race, or whatever you go by. You are a fraud and story teller. Some of the Receipts you provided to paypal: Spears Racing Head Gasket for higher compression $91.69 - Modification to engine $66 shipping - You offered and agreed to pay half ($128) to overnight parts that were good willed to you. You insisted on overnight. Install cam chain tensioner $35 - You knew it wasnt included with the engine and said it wasnt a big deal in our texts. I did have this part good willed to you. Install Throttle body boots $35 - More parts that werent included with the sale. I did have these parts good willed to you as well. All i can do is laugh at some of these fraudulent charges. Set cam timing $70 - You knew the CCT wasnt included with the engine and would have to do this. It was communicated to you. install stator cover and gasket $35 - You decided to replace the scraped cover for cosmetic reasons. perform valve check $70 - Your decision 6 hrs to install head gasket $210 - Im not a mechanic and even i, know what a head gasket is, can replace a head gasket on the fz07 in less than 6 hrs. I refunded you $200 which was good willed to cover the labor for the cam chain tensioner, cam timing and whatever else it would cover. You decided to keep and modify the engine instead of sending it back for a full refund. I am not responsible for you modifying the engine to your liking. You purchased a stock ebay engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Just now, scratchpad said: Jeff Bean, J.J. , jb.junior, JBJR Racing, GoFundMe so i can race, or whatever you go by. You are a fraud and story teller. Some of the Receipts you provided to paypal: Spears Racing Head Gasket for higher compression $91.69 - Modification to engine $66 shipping - You offered and agreed to pay half ($128) to overnight parts that were good willed to you. You insisted on overnight. Install cam chain tensioner $35 - You knew it wasnt included with the engine and said it wasnt a big deal in our texts. I did have this part good willed to you. Install Throttle body boots $35 - More parts that werent included with the sale. I did have these parts good willed to you as well. All i can do is laugh at some of these fraudulent charges. Set cam timing $70 - You knew the CCT wasnt included with the engine and would have to do this. It was communicated to you. install stator cover and gasket $35 - You decided to replace the scraped cover for cosmetic reasons. perform valve check $70 - Your decision 6 hrs to install head gasket $210 - Im not a mechanic and even i, know what a head gasket is, can replace a head gasket on the fz07 in less than 6 hrs. I refunded you $200 which was good willed to cover the labor for the cam chain tensioner, cam timing and whatever else it would cover. You decided to keep and modify the engine instead of sending it back for a full refund. I am not responsible for you modifying the engine to your liking. You purchased a stock ebay engine. I honestly just pity you. It’s perfectly acceptable to order compatible non OEM parts if they are the same cost and better availability. Which was the case. The $200 was taken into account in the overall cost calculations. It’s all in there, and you either overlooked or intentionally omitted it to be dishonest here. At this point I’m not sure which is the more likely scenario. Again, this was all based on a $35 an hour labor rate. Where would you get that anywhere? You got totally hooked up here, and you’re fussing about it. There’s nothing optional about removing all of the old gasket before installing a new one. You really need to check up on yourself. As you say, you’re not a mechanic, and I hope you you don’t work on any engines. Because every one you touch would be screwed up, the way you were talking. “Cosmetic?” You’re really clutching at straws here. There was no bill for $66 overnight shipping . More careless oversight on your part. Or an intentional lie. Again, who knows at this point. I’ll go ahead and update the claim to include the engine cover, thermostat and labor to fix both. I can go as long on this as you want… Edited February 23, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchpad Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 whos lying? Heres the $66.66 receipt you put in the claim for shipping that you insisted on overnight shipping. Also, fraudster, you bought a head gasket etc. from David (fzar) on here and uploaded that $75 receipt too. And a Spears Racing head gasket receipt for $91. Did you install 2 head gaskets on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Just now, scratchpad said: whos lying? Heres the $66.66 receipt you put in the claim for shipping that you insisted on overnight shipping. Also, fraudster, you bought a head gasket etc. from David (fzar) on here and uploaded that $75 receipt too. And a Spears Racing head gasket receipt for $91. Did you install 2 head gaskets on there? You just keep saying stupid things. It's embarrassing. I bought a series of gaskets from the private seller -- not just a head gasket. So the copied receipt was for all of them, as it was one receipt, I had to include the entire receipt. I netted out the second head gasket in the total refund request, which is easy to see. But, of course, you're just overlooking that too. Or are intentionally omitting it. Same with the overnight shipping of $66. It was included as a bill as part of the requested documents. But the cost was netted out, and not included in the requested refund amount. It's very easy to figure out -- 7th grade math. And, again, look at the labor bill -- you got an obscenely low hourly rate. How are you possibly claiming that I've overcharged here? I way, way undercharged -- at least at first. I've already started correcting that and just submitted receipts for the engine cover and thermostat. Happy to keep adding things on, if you want to keep running... Edited February 23, 2022 by jb.junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 24, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, jb.junior said: You just keep saying stupid things. It's embarrassing. I bought a series of gaskets from the private seller -- not just a head gasket. So the copied receipt was for all of them, as it was one receipt, I had to include the entire receipt. I netted out the second head gasket in the total refund request, which is easy to see. But, of course, you're just overlooking that too. Or are intentionally omitting it. Same with the overnight shipping of $66. It was included as a bill as part of the requested documents. But the cost was netted out, and not included in the requested refund amount. It's very easy to figure out -- 7th grade math. And, again, look at the labor bill -- you got an obscenely low hourly rate. How are you possibly claiming that I've overcharged here? I way, way undercharged -- at least at first. I've already started correcting that and just submitted receipts for the engine cover and thermostat. Happy to keep adding things on, if you want to keep running... I think you are one that is saying stupid things..... I don't know you, or any of the parties involved with this $hit-$how. Being that it's on a public forum, I'm chiming in. In the grand scheme of things, all the parts and labor involved here are pretty small numbers. I've been a part of the MA race team (Blu-line racing) for the Twins Cup. We ran mid-pack on a $15K motor. Those in front of us ran motors well north of $30K motors.... Running MA is expensive! Done right, a weekend is going to cost you $2,500- if you go "all-in" (and that's if you don't wreck anything). Even after all the weight reductions, and running a stock motor- I think you would have a tough time making it through qualifying. I'm sure you are very talented racer, but MA is FULL of very high-caliber racers- on highly modified/lightweight bikes. I'm NOT trying to be a dick, but MA is filled with fast guys, with deep pockets/sponsors to get them there. I seriously wish you the best with this race season- 1 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb.junior Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, cornerslider said: I think you are one that is saying stupid things..... I don't know you, or any of the parties involved with this $hit-$how. Being that it's on a public forum, I'm chiming in. In the grand scheme of things, all the parts and labor involved here are pretty small numbers. I've been a part of the MA race team (Blu-line racing) for the Twins Cup. We ran mid-pack on a $15-20K motor. Those in front of us ran motors well north of $30K motors.... Running MA is expensive! Done right, a weekend is going to cost you $2, 500- if you go "all-in" (and that's if you don't wreck anything). Even after all the weight reductions, and running a stock motor- I think you would have a tough time making it through qualifying. I'm sure you are very talented racer, but MA is filled VERY high-caliber racers- on highly modified/lightweight bikes. I'm NOT trying to be a dick, but MA is filled with fast guys, with pretty deep pockets/sponsors to get them there. I seriously wish you the best with this race season- Unfortunately, you are commenting on something without getting all of the relevant information that is easily available. If you'd have done your diligence, and read the entire thread, you'd understand that status of my superbike engine that's currently being built, why I needed a stock engine in the interim, and what the season plan is, and getting bamboozled with this spare screwed up my season preparation. I know this is an unpleasant thread, but if you're going to join in, at least be prepared. Please review and get up to speed if you wish to continue involvement. I do appreciate the insight and understand how expensive it is. My budget is pretty solid, and this quibble about this spare engine has nothing to do with that. It is indeed a blip on my budget, but it's the time that it cost me, and, more importantly, it's the way that I'm being treated. It's now the "principle," not the, "principal." Definitely lots of fast guys. And definitely lots deep pockets. As far as talent and deepness of pockets, perhaps I'm somewhere in lower portion. My times last year at the six MotoA tracks that I competed on would have qualified me at each, so I guess we'll see... Because of this engine issue, I've missed most the planned pre-season races and practices and will be going in to the first race on a mostly untested bike and set up. That's why I'm pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosp600rr Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, cornerslider said: I think you are one that is saying stupid things..... I don't know you, or any of the parties involved with this $hit-$how. Being that it's on a public forum, I'm chiming in. In the grand scheme of things, all the parts and labor involved here are pretty small numbers. I've been a part of the MA race team (Blu-line racing) for the Twins Cup. We ran mid-pack on a $15K motor. Those in front of us ran motors well north of $30K motors.... Running MA is expensive! Done right, a weekend is going to cost you $2,500- if you go "all-in" (and that's if you don't wreck anything). Even after all the weight reductions, and running a stock motor- I think you would have a tough time making it through qualifying. I'm sure you are very talented racer, but MA is filled VERY high-caliber racers- on highly modified/lightweight bikes. I'm NOT trying to be a dick, but MA is filled with fast guys, with deep pockets/sponsors to get them there. I seriously wish you the best with this race season- Im curious about a 15k motor and a 30k motor. Please elaborate. I have a pretty healthy motor in my FZ thats nowhere near the cost of either of those. I thought all the Aprilia RS660 last year had stock motors because nothing was available for them. They make 100ish hp and they won the most of the races and the championship. For the record Im not a Moto America guy so have never even been on track with them to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 24, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, jb.junior said: Unfortunately, you are commenting on something without getting all of the relevant information that is easily available. If you'd have done your diligence, and read the entire thread, you'd understand that status of my superbike engine that's currently being built, why I needed a stock engine in the interim, and what the season plan is, and getting bamboozled with this spare screwed up my season preparation. I know this is an unpleasant thread, but if you're going to join in, at least be prepared. Please review and get up to speed if you wish to continue involvement. I have read the entire thread.... I thought it was interesting to follow. I start on my bikes for the (following year) around Thanksgiving. Most people wait, and then get into a rush. Given COVID has REALLY complicated the parts chain supply, starting earlier is even more important. You never mentioned when you started on the Superbike build? My guess is that your delays on a Superbike motor are COVID related. It seems like you know what it costs to be successful. It just appears you are squabbling over money that's equivalent to the cost of one set of tires. BTW: You made this issue on a pubic forum, and I can continue my involvement any time- 1 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 24, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, cosp600rr said: Im curious about a 15k motor and a 30k motor. Please elaborate. I have a pretty healthy motor in my FZ thats nowhere near the cost of either of those. I thought all the Aprilia RS660 last year had stock motors because nothing was available for them. They make 100ish hp and they won the most of the races and the championship. For the record Im not a Moto America guy so have never even been on track with them to know. "Stock" is a relative term.... They were considered "stock" as they were too new to get much on-track testing done. I'm certain they spent several thousands of dollars on Dyno-testing, and modifying intake/fueling/exhaust changes, modifying the throttle bodies, as well as some head work. Starting from ground zero, these costs are generally higher, as they had no baseline to really start from. It's not like they pulled it out of the crate, and pulled the lights off, and called it a race bike- I personally have a very healthy FZ-07 motor with "stock" internal parts. I still have north of $2k in other parts to make it that healthy (I do all my own work, and have no labor costs either). I'm NOT a racer. I do a lot of track days, and help out my racer friends when I can- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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