2025 Club Race Build

[Ouroboros]

Let's start with the good news first (spoiler alert, no bad news to follow). I may be able to work my current gig through all of 2025. I'm not counting on it as a certainty until I have a renewal contract in front of me and it's signed by yours truly. Those details are being worked on behind the scenes as I type this. Even then, I know things are subject to change.

I may be celebrating a bit early, but I think I just wanted an excuse to pour the infrequent glass of bourbon to sip on this evening.

My Partzilla haul arrived earlier than expected. In retrospect, I realize that I forgot to add a few parts to the order but I will inevitably place another in the future.

A few observations

• they sent me one more bolt than necessary
• the new chain guard (mine was obliterated) is interesting. I'll start with the rearset bolt.

If you find yourself in a strange situation like myself, R7 rearset plates bolt up to a FZ frame no problemo. You will, however, have to order different mounting bolts than what the FZ/MT uses. The proper part# is 90109-084F7. I can't recall if I've previously mentioned this, but I picked up full R7 foot control assemblies on eBay from different sellers for $135 total. They were well packaged, barely used, and affordable. Both were missing their footpeg feelers and had minor damage, but everything that I need to donor to the Woodcraft set is there and in excellent condition. I won't complain about that.

Bolted up as a test fit. Woodcraft goodies to follow.

I don't know about you guys but my 16' came with what I would describe as a rubber chain guard (not pictured, and since disposed of). The replacement part largely resembles plastic in look and feel.

 

I removed both of my fork legs prior to the last post. I'd like to make a small correction in that I don't think Matt provides new bearings for the adjustable triples. I don't see that mentioned in the product description on his site. I'll be sure to let ya'll know what the results are when I eventually get one in my hands. Regarding fork service - I'm borderline religious about fluid changes on my personal fleet of vehicles. I do everything to the letter and sometimes follow a bit of an aggressive service schedule. These past few seasons, I've been doing a drain and fill on my fork legs prior to putting the bike away. Think of it like engine oil. It heats up from use when you're pushing the bike and it cools down in between. The enemy of any lubricant is heat cycles. Let's not forget that the heat generated from your brakes soaks into the fork legs as well. That's probably not much of a concern for us mere mortals at the club level and nowhere near record lap pace, but I consider it cheap and good "insurance".

I went the extra mile this season and decided to do a full teardown rather than my typical drain and fill. I recall feeling and hearing some strange resistance when rotating one of the legs earlier this year. All my 'investigation' costs me is a new sealing washer and fork seal at a minimum. Everything else is gravy. All of that said, I've been very happy with my Ohlins cartridge kit. Unlike the K-Tech, it's drop in and requires no machining before install. My bushings appear to be in fantastic shape on this leg so I will reuse those. When I go to reassemble, I will use new oil and dust seals.

 

I'd say that's about it for now! Don't forget to check out what I'm selling in the classified section. As stated before, progress will be slow(er) moving forward. I'm hoping to pick some steam back up in the next few weeks if things pan out job wise 

 

 

[etorty]

@Ouroboros: I'm impressed by the new chain guide.

I've changed this object in my 07 two times (three chain guide in total: the OEM + 2), and now I'm already in need of a new substitution.

My guides was coded "1WS-22151-00", then "1WS-22151-01" and the ending part looks different than yours (see pict).

 

If I see right, your chain guide is coded "BEB-22151-00". It's right?

It's really different in the final section... exactly where the old one was every time too much worn.

The new one seems to be also thicker and made with a less soft material.

Please, can you confirm that the new one has the same plugs than the old, on order to fit in the holes of the swing arm?

Thank you!!

Edited November 21 by etorty

[Ouroboros]

6 hours ago, etorty said:

@Ouroboros: I'm impressed by the new chain guide.

I've changed this object in my 07 two times (three chain guide in total: the OEM + 2), and now I'm already in need of a new substitution.

My guides was coded "1WS-22151-00", then "1WS-22151-01" and the ending part looks different than yours (see pict).

 

If I see right, your chain guide is coded "BEB-22151-00". It's right?

It's really different in the final section... exactly where the old one was every time too much worn.

The new one seems to be also thicker and made with a less soft material.

Please, can you confirm that the new one has the same plugs than the old, on order to fit in the holes of the swing arm?

Thank you!!

I think I messed up... Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

I've looked at my picture twice and just checked in the garage. Sure enough, this looks off. Technically it "fits" and lines up with the holes, but this is not explicitly designed for the FZ07. See below:

 

 

I just confirmed via Revzilla and their parts image (fiche?) that you are correct 

 

I have no clue how I managed to make such an insane mistake. I think I searched for this part on eBay, snagged the part number and put it into Partzilla if I were to hazard a guess. Once I have everything bolted together, I think this would technically make contact with the rear tire. Even if it didn't, it looks awful. After taking another look at it, I think you could make it work with some trimming.

 

EDIT: It's a R7 chain guide which makes sense why it fits the swingarm but why it looks a little wonky. Here's another angle so you can see the overhang

Personally speaking, I'm leaning towards trimming it and calling it a day but if you have the option to order the proper one, I would do that.

 

Edited November 21 by Ouroboros

[etorty]

Thank you for your reply!

Well, yesterday I've done some researches, and I've found that your chain guide it's the right part number for the MT-07 m.y.2024 "Pure".

So, if you had managed to fit this new chain guide on your swingarm, it's a very good news for me.

I've seen in your "aerial" picture that the inner border of the guide is really near the tire, but this thing doesn't bother me... and is clear to me that this portion of guide is overhanging off the swingarm. If it will be useful, I'll trim a little the new chain guide. I prefer to do this by myself, instead to let the chain trim the old model of the guide (like in the last 10 years).

In the part catalogue for the m.y.2024 there's some additional parts not present in the catalogue for the previous m.y.

You can see the objects #2 and #35 (some sort of self-adhesive tape... the #2 it's the same I've done in 2016 in order to constrain the old chain guide to the swingarm), but there's a very interesting object: #28. It's "DAMPER CHAIN CASE B4C-22332-00". At this moment I can't figure how it will fit in the inner side of the swingarm. But I think it will help to sustain the overhanging part of the new guide.

[etorty]

I was wrong about the use of the object #28.

I've done some researches, right now, and I've found that this object was introduced in 2018-2019 in order to solve or prevent - in some cases - noise problem caused by the rear fender when the hole becomes oblong.

 

So... it's no mandatory his use with the "new" chain guide BEB-22151-00.

[Ouroboros]

On 11/23/2024 at 4:33 AM, etorty said:

I was wrong about the use of the object #28.

I've done some researches, right now, and I've found that this object was introduced in 2018-2019 in order to solve or prevent - in some cases - noise problem caused by the rear fender when the hole becomes oblong.

 

So... it's no mandatory his use with the "new" chain guide BEB-22151-00.

Great find. I hope you and/or someone else found this useful.

[Ouroboros]

Small updates in the form of PSAs

I don't know how many of you track your FZ or any of your bike(s) for that matter, but I got my first set of warmers on a good sale from Woodcraft. I was initially going to go with Chickenhawk but I know a member here who had a referral code and these were the cheapest I've ever seen them. 

Last but not least, I have a R6 front master cylinder assembly that I snagged for $50 on its way to me. Based on what I could tell from the guy's eBay profile, he built a track R6 and is parting out the stock components so I'm expecting a barely used part.

The build continues!

 

EDIT: Speaking of track tires and such, I found a post where someone made a cost effective way of carting race tires around the paddock. I have Thursday and Friday off this week. I'm hoping to pick up a "hand cart" (dolly) and make the same modifications. I thought it was clever and worth sharing:

 

 

Edited November 25 by Ouroboros

[Ouroboros]

More slow and steady progress. To be honest, this post is erring on the side of filler content than anything else at the moment. It's unusually cold here for this time of year and my garage does not seem to keep heat as well as the last space I worked out of. It's making it hard to work with my hands on smaller items because I can't keep them warm enough. The keen eyed among you may notice that I've cleaned up a bit and reorganized. There's nothing better than a well laid out shop space.

The following arrived within the past week:

• R6 front MC
• Woodcraft warmers
• WEN generator

Lesson learned about the MC. I should have spent a few bucks more on another seller's item. What you see in that ziploc bag is brake fluid. The seller didn't drain the MC properly before shipping or at least bother to plug the holes with shop towels. I would normally clean this up and overlook it, but I found a deposit of a sludge-like substance on one of the banjo bolts as I removed it. I will be tearing this thing down completely because I don't trust it. A teardown is probably a bit overkill, but I want the peace of mind. I don't want to find myself deep into the braking zone of T7 at Midohio with no front brakes. An agricultural visit to China Beach is not on my list of destinations for 2025.

I am very happy with my Black Friday haul from Woodcraft and Amazon. I'm not one to get wrapped up in consumerism, but the WEN generator was at an all time low (confirmed by Camelcamelcamel) and I don't recall ever seeing Woodcraft warmers go on sale. I saved somewhere around $100 combined. Like all Woodcraft products, they feel and look top notch in quality. The WEN generator seems polished as well. I filled it with oil and fired it up yesterday afternoon with ease.

 

While I've been waiting for the Robem FZ07 triple clamps to come back in stock, I've been thinking about a contingency plan. I've been entertaining two options:

1. Continue to run the stock triples. I've corrected swingarm angle with the new rear link. Would the bike handle fine or do I need the adjustable front end to keep the feel and handling characteristics optimal?
2. Do a R7 front end swap

Has anyone documented a R7 front end swap for a FZ? Based on every image and parts diagram I've seen, the frames are nearly identical. The only relevant differences I've noticed are at the head tube. There are two welded tabs up there and I've read the rake is a bit different. All of that aside, I'd imagine the stem length and diameter is the same. I theorize that I would just have to buy R7 fork legs, calipers, rotors and a front wheel. It's an expensive proposition, but I'd be hedging my bets on future parts availability. A lot of folks seem to be moving from the FZ/MT platform for racing. I imagine the R7 is here to stay. Matt appears to be the only one offering adjustable triples for the 41mm setup. On the other hand, a quick online search shows me that there are a few reputable brands offering adjustable R7 triple clamps for sale.

Thoughts?

[M. Hausknecht]

With the back of the bike raised, you need much less fork offset than stock, so you'll have sufficient trail. With the stock triples, the bike will be "nervous" in a straight line" and will tend to fall into turns. Some people ride it that way, but I wouldn't, especially with a 180/60 or so size rear tire (appreciably taller than stock 180/55).

The R7 front end will have the same or nearly the same problematic frame geometry without adjustable triples. Yes, you can get them used if you're patient but once you buy an R7 (or R6) front end with all the stuff, add cartridges, and buy new triples, you're spending real money. Actually, thinking about it, I'd go with an R6 front end off a track bike before I'd go with an R7 front end. You'll want fork extensions or internal lengthening of the forks, because the R6 forks (in their various iterations) are a bit too short, but that isn't a big deal. You'd still need adjustable triples though.  

Edited Thursday at 02:20 PM by M. Hausknecht

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, M. Hausknecht said:

With the back of the bike raised, you need much less fork offset than stock, so you'll have sufficient trail. With the stock triples, the bike will be "nervous" in a straight line" and will tend to fall into turns. Some people ride it that way, but I wouldn't, especially with a 180/60 or so size rear tire (appreciably taller than stock 180/55).

The R7 front end will have the same or nearly the same problematic frame geometry without adjustable triples. Yes, you can get them used if you're patient but once you buy an R7 (or R6) front end with all the stuff, add cartridges, and buy new triples, you're spending real money. Actually, thinking about it, I'd go with an R6 front end off a track bike before I'd go with an R7 front end. You'll want fork extensions or internal lengthening of the forks, because the R6 forks (in their various iterations) are a bit too short, but that isn't a big deal. You'd still need adjustable triples though.  

I realize in my previous post that I may not have been entirely clear. The primary goal of the R7 front end swap is that Matt has adjustable triples in stock right now for that setup as do other vendors like Attack Performance. I've seen his parts catalog for bikes dwindle within the past year and I'm wondering if the FZ/MT offset triple clamps could be a casualty in the near future. Of course, I'm only making guesses without having a direct line of communication with him. I agree with you that a bone stock R7 front end is pointless.

Regarding the R6 front end swap, the consensus seems to be 50/50 from what I've read. Don't a lot of folks say that the R6 front end creates a weird chassis feeling? Something about the R6 front end being far more rigid and it doesn't work well with how much flex the FZ07 frame has. I reasoned, maybe incorrectly, that the R7 fork with aftermarket adjustable triples would be the happy middle ground since it's actually designed for the chassis. I can have my cake and eat it too. Those considerations aside, a R6 front end sounds awesome. Plenty of support trackside, parts cheap and plentiful, etc.

The unfortunate part about all of this is that I have no reference point for what a well handling track bike feels like (aside from the Kramer) so I don't know what I'm missing out on. My only criticism would be that the bike seems slow to tip in. I'm heavily relying on math (because it doesn't lie) around trail and absorbing other people's development journeys.

I hope that makes sense and you can appreciate how I arrived at this crossroad.

[M. Hausknecht]

Blake Davis's Twins Cup Championship bikes had extended R1 forks (essentially the same as the late gen R6 forks) in custom triples. I've discussed his setup with him, and his dad,who knows a thing or two about building bikes. They ran their bikes very high. On the other hand, "what you've read" is likely the same as what I've read, which is mostly people who don't really know what they are doing and don't get anywhere near the edges of the performance envelopes of their bikes. The bigger forks flex less than the stock forks. Even I can feel the flex in my forks with the Robem triples. Going to extended R6 forks with cartridges was my intention before i got my Kramer. 

The stock frame is wimpy and no matter what you do with the suspension you'll never match the feeling of the Kramer with the stock frame and swingarm. But the wimpy frame can be addressed by welding in bracing that is not allowed by MA rules. Vintage guys on vintage bikes have been welding in frame bracing and gussets for many years, and it used to be SOP in AMA pro racing in the 70s and 80s before aluminum spar frames appeared. It may be more involved than you intend, but it is a viable option. 

 

[Ouroboros]

20 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Blake Davis's Twins Cup Championship bikes had extended R1 forks (essentially the same as the late gen R6 forks) in custom triples. I've discussed his setup with him, and his dad,who knows a thing or two about building bikes. They ran their bikes very high. On the other hand, "what you've read" is likely the same as what I've read, which is mostly people who don't really know what they are doing and don't get anywhere near the edges of the performance envelopes of their bikes. The bigger forks flex less than the stock forks. Even I can feel the flex in my forks with the Robem triples. Going to extended R6 forks with cartridges was my intention before i got my Kramer. 

The stock frame is wimpy and no matter what you do with the suspension you'll never match the feeling of the Kramer with the stock frame and swingarm. But the wimpy frame can be addressed by welding in bracing that is not allowed by MA rules. Vintage guys on vintage bikes have been welding in frame bracing and gussets for many years, and it used to be SOP in AMA pro racing in the 70s and 80s before aluminum spar frames appeared. It may be more involved than you intend, but it is a viable option. 

 

Thanks for answering my questions. I'll look at tracking down R6/R1 front end parts. By the way, you'll be hearing from me within the next month or so about the cut transmission (assuming you still have it).

[br4nd0n]

Quote

designed for the chassis

I highly doubt that as Yamaha, along with a lot of other manufacturers, tend to slap on old parts from other motorcycles for cost savings rather than design something new. I would also suggest going with any decent used super bike frontend from any of the major manufacturers. Just be careful and make sure the sizes work out; that where I ran into problems with mine and it's been a slow process of trying to create a few custom parts to make the swap work.

[Ouroboros]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:25 AM, br4nd0n said:

I highly doubt that as Yamaha, along with a lot of other manufacturers, tend to slap on old parts from other motorcycles for cost savings rather than design something new. I would also suggest going with any decent used super bike frontend from any of the major manufacturers. Just be careful and make sure the sizes work out; that where I ran into problems with mine and it's been a slow process of trying to create a few custom parts to make the swap work.

You were kind of light on specifics when you were asking me for measurements. What are your plans and the scope of your project? What was your reasoning for not going with the standard R6/R1 conversion?

[bockscar]

On 12/5/2024 at 5:06 AM, Ouroboros said:

Has anyone documented a R7 front end swap for a FZ?

 

Also the R6 MC is a waste of time. I put one on my FZ, and later changed to an aftermarket Brembo, the Brembo is so much better, made a huge difference over the R6 master.

[br4nd0n]

Quote

What are your plans and the scope of your project? What was your reasoning for not going with the standard R6/R1 conversion?

Many years ago I had picked up a Kawasaki ZX6R with the Showas BPP forks 51mm diameter top clamp and 53mm diameter bottom clamp with the compression and rebound in both legs for a super good price. Problem was the steering stem bearings for it were 35mm x 55mm x 15mm for top and bottom. I could make the bottom work on the FZ-07, but not the top because, in Yamaha's lovely decision, they made the top significantly smaller at 25mm x 47mm x 17mm. Barely any type of bearing would be 47mm outer and 35mm inner. If there was one, it was some no name brand with a fraction of the dynamic and static loads making it super unsafe and guaranteed to break.

 

I thought of potentially creating a new upper clamp, but creating one would be a challenge and pricing of raw material was getting close to the price of me getting used clamps from another motorcycle. I just needed to find ones that supported 51mm top and 53mm bottom as most of the newer year models shrunk the diameter a little. I found a good deal on a set of clamps with stem etc. and the stem was small enough to fit, but an uncommon size of 29mm diameter. It also seems to be a little too long for the FZ-07. This however, only requires that I make a shorter steering stem if it is indeed too long, which is easier than making new clamps and a steering stem to go with it.

 

Oh yeah, there's also the issue of brakes and front axle, but that should be an easy fix with making a spacer with the smaller diameter of the FZ axle cut into it.

[br4nd0n]

Quote

the Brembo is so much better, made a huge difference over the R6 master.

The R6 master should also be a Brembo as I have one. I believe it's a Brembo 16mm

Edited Saturday at 08:09 PM by br4nd0n

[Ouroboros]

3 hours ago, bockscar said:

 

Also the R6 MC is a waste of time. I put one on my FZ, and later changed to an aftermarket Brembo, the Brembo is so much better, made a huge difference over the R6 master.

My main reason going with the R6 MC are fitment issues that I've encountered. The stock FZ MC makes contact with my dash before it reaches full lock to the left. Remember that I am running race fairings which requires a dash relocation via a fairing stay. I had to compromise a comfortable lever angle in favor of not making contact with my dash. It's less than ideal in its current state and I've had a fair bit of discomfort running it this way over a race stint. It would cause my right hand to go numb which made throttle and brake modulation very tricky.

My hope is that by going to the R6 MC, I will have more room in the cockpit since the reservoir is not a part of the lever assembly. Additionally, the R6 MC is radial, which apparently offers a more direct feel for brake modulation. More of an added bonus than anything.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I read over your thread that you linked. I will be heavily referencing that in the future. Thank you.

3 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

Many years ago I had picked up a Kawasaki ZX6R with the Showas BPP forks 51mm diameter top clamp and 53mm diameter bottom clamp with the compression and rebound in both legs for a super good price. Problem was the steering stem bearings for it were 35mm x 55mm x 15mm for top and bottom. I could make the bottom work on the FZ-07, but not the top because, in Yamaha's lovely decision, they made the top significantly smaller at 25mm x 47mm x 17mm. Barely any type of bearing would be 47mm outer and 35mm inner. If there was one, it was some no name brand with a fraction of the dynamic and static loads making it super unsafe and guaranteed to break.

 

I thought of potentially creating a new upper clamp, but creating one would be a challenge and pricing of raw material was getting close to the price of me getting used clamps from another motorcycle. I just needed to find ones that supported 51mm top and 53mm bottom as most of the newer year models shrunk the diameter a little. I found a good deal on a set of clamps with stem etc. and the stem was small enough to fit, but an uncommon size of 29mm diameter. It also seems to be a little too long for the FZ-07. This however, only requires that I make a shorter steering stem if it is indeed too long, which is easier than making new clamps and a steering stem to go with it.

 

Oh yeah, there's also the issue of brakes and front axle, but that should be an easy fix with making a spacer with the smaller diameter of the FZ axle cut into it.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

3 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

The R6 master should also be a Brembo as I have one. I believe it's a Brembo 16mm

Mine has Nissin markings on it. 

Edited Saturday at 11:18 PM by Ouroboros

[bockscar]

3 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

The R6 master should also be a Brembo as I have one. I believe it's a Brembo 16mm

Yes, the stock R6 Brembo MC I had on my FZ07 was an OEM Brembo radial and had a Brembo logo on it. I also thought it was fine and the brakes were as good as they could get. Then my track buddies kept telling me OEM Brembo is trash and I should get an aftermarket Brembo 18/19. I didn't really agree with them, thought the OEM Brembo was fine (big upgrade over the stock FZ07 master), but they finally convinced me to get the aftermarket Brembo. They were right, its a huge difference. The aftermarket Brembo made a bigger difference than anything else I have changed with the brakes. 

Here is how my brake journey went:

1. Started with stock FZ setup, with steel braded lines (first few times at the track also)
2. Changed to R6 front end, so bigger rotors (cheap direct Chinese aftermarket rotors), R6 OEM calipers, FZ07 MC
3. Changed to Brembo OEM R6 MC, and nicer brake pads
4. Now: R6 OEM rotors, calipers, steel lines still, Brembo aftermarket MC. 

#4 is massively better than #3, so instead of taking 3 steps to get to the answer, I would just go straight to #4

[bockscar]

I should add this info to my original R6 fork thread, but:

With clips ons, and an R5 fork, you will have issues with the bars hitting the rectifier and ECU in their stock locations. Option one, get the 3 inch rise clip on holders, they will help, but you still might have issues:

The bigger problem is that the R6 fork steering limiters barley touch the steering limiter on the head stock, and the limiters on the lower triple tree will break off with the smallest lowside:

To solve this, and give the bars more clearance, I 3D printed some steering limiters, that limit the steering more, and will be much more robust in a crash:

Edited yesterday at 01:19 AM by bockscar

[bockscar]

I should mention those limiters are printed out of solid TPU and held on with zip ties but also VHB tape.

Edited yesterday at 01:21 AM by bockscar

[bockscar]

New my steering is limited so it clears like this, but planning to get some lip on mounts with more offset, so it will get better:

[bockscar]

Also while I am at it, here is how my Dash is setup, I have the lap timer and Dash higher than the bodywork mount, I can see it better that way. On the fairing mount is my RaceBox. 

Here is my MC while we are at it:

 

 

[Ouroboros]

1 minute ago, bockscar said:

Also while I am at it, here is how my Dash is setup, I have the lap timer and Dash higher than the bodywork mount, I can see it better that way. On the fairing mount is my RaceBox. 

Here is my MC while we are at it:

 

 

Ah, so you are running a fully faired bike now? It looks like you're running Flexiglass bodywork as well?

Noted on the clearance concerns with the clip ons. I've relocated my rectified and ECU so I'm not sure that will still be a concern. I won't know until I go to fit everything together though. I keep looking at your picture and I'm trying to figure out how you have your AIM mounted. I've never seen one mounted that way. Another 3D print of yours or a production part?

[bockscar]

Yeah I have the Flexiglass bodywork. I haven't run it at the track yet. I got it mid summer, but was busy enough tracking all season I didn't want to deal with that project. Now getting it sorted since its the offseason for a bit. 

Yeah if you have your ECU and rectifier relocated, your clearance should probably be fine with the R6 forks. 

The dash/solo mount is a combo of 3D printed and Send Cut Send parts. I like having the Solo right in my face, rather than farther forward down low. Racebox is down on the fairing strut. 

Before I got the full fairing setup, I ran this 3D printed thingy to keep the Solo and dash out of the wind: