2025 Club Race Build

[Ouroboros]

45 minutes ago, bockscar said:

Yeah I have the Flexiglass bodywork. I haven't run it at the track yet. I got it mid summer, but was busy enough tracking all season I didn't want to deal with that project. Now getting it sorted since its the offseason for a bit. 

Yeah if you have your ECU and rectifier relocated, your clearance should probably be fine with the R6 forks. 

The dash/solo mount is a combo of 3D printed and Send Cut Send parts. I like having the Solo right in my face, rather than farther forward down low. Racebox is down on the fairing strut. 

Before I got the full fairing setup, I ran this 3D printed thingy to keep the Solo and dash out of the wind:

Can you explain what you use the Racebox micro for? You already have an AIM Solo 2. What am I missing?

[bockscar]

Yeah good question, so other people I track with were wondering the same thing, until I convinced the guys with Solos to get a RaceBox also

The Racebox Micro is "only" $100 and wired into the 12v so it always records every session and I never need to mess with it or do anything. Its just set and forget. Now, every track day I go to, I have recorded in the app, all the lap times I did, corner speeds, etc, all in the app easy to get to:

 You can see every track date, and fastest lap time of that day popping the app open which is super helpful:

 

The Solo 2, also has all the same data, but you need to pair it to a laptop to get at the data, so its a complete PITA to do at the track. I don't bring a laptop to the track and I don't want to start. Also the AIM software is not easy to use and kinda sucks. I use the Solo when I am literally on track to check things. I have it setup with my predictive lap, best lap of the session and last lap (standing lap). In the lower left is how many laps I have done which is also super useful to have. I usually get about 8 laps in a 20 minute session (not including out lap or in lap) so I know where I am in the session. 

 

So while I could pair the the Solo to a laptop between sessions, I find it much easier to use the racebox, and have that just record every lap I ever do at the track, and use the Solo while riding the bike. 

[M. Hausknecht]

14 hours ago, bockscar said:

Yes, the stock R6 Brembo MC I had on my FZ07 was an OEM Brembo radial and had a Brembo logo on it. I also thought it was fine and the brakes were as good as they could get. Then my track buddies kept telling me OEM Brembo is trash and I should get an aftermarket Brembo 18/19. I didn't really agree with them, thought the OEM Brembo was fine (big upgrade over the stock FZ07 master), but they finally convinced me to get the aftermarket Brembo. They were right, its a huge difference. The aftermarket Brembo made a bigger difference than anything else I have changed with the brakes. 

Here is how my brake journey went:

1. Started with stock FZ setup, with steel braded lines (first few times at the track also)
2. Changed to R6 front end, so bigger rotors (cheap direct Chinese aftermarket rotors), R6 OEM calipers, FZ07 MC
3. Changed to Brembo OEM R6 MC, and nicer brake pads
4. Now: R6 OEM rotors, calipers, steel lines still, Brembo aftermarket MC. 

#4 is massively better than #3, so instead of taking 3 steps to get to the answer, I would just go straight to #4

You never used the R6 master with the 07 calipers. The upsize is sufficient for folks, like me and maybe you, who prefer a firmer and shorter lever pull. And it is relatively inexpensive for a decent quality radial MC; it certainly isn't trash and works very well with the stock 07 calipers. The MC upgrade you made once using the larger bore R6 calipers makes sense, because it is also an upsize, analogous to the switch from a stock 07 master to the R6 master for stock 07 calipers. That you prefer the bigger bore/higher leverage MC tells me you like a firm, short lever throw.

Master cylinders need to be matched to calipers, in light of the rider's desired feel at the lever. Upsize if you want a shorter throw (and higher effort) and less progressivity, leave the master cylinder bore and leverage alone if you want a longer throw and more progressivity in feel.  

Edited December 8, 2024 by M. Hausknecht

[M. Hausknecht]

12 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Ah, so you are running a fully faired bike now? It looks like you're running Flexiglass bodywork as well?

Noted on the clearance concerns with the clip ons. I've relocated my rectified and ECU so I'm not sure that will still be a concern. I won't know until I go to fit everything together though. I keep looking at your picture and I'm trying to figure out how you have your AIM mounted. I've never seen one mounted that way. Another 3D print of yours or a production part?

I made a mount for a Solo2 that places it closer to me than the stock dash, using Robem's front fairing stay. I can see both the dash and the Solo2 readily and there is room for the cables and brake lines.

[Ouroboros]

8 hours ago, bockscar said:

Yeah good question, so other people I track with were wondering the same thing, until I convinced the guys with Solos to get a RaceBox also

The Racebox Micro is "only" $100 and wired into the 12v so it always records every session and I never need to mess with it or do anything. Its just set and forget. Now, every track day I go to, I have recorded in the app, all the lap times I did, corner speeds, etc, all in the app easy to get to:

 You can see every track date, and fastest lap time of that day popping the app open which is super helpful:

 

The Solo 2, also has all the same data, but you need to pair it to a laptop to get at the data, so its a complete PITA to do at the track. I don't bring a laptop to the track and I don't want to start. Also the AIM software is not easy to use and kinda sucks. I use the Solo when I am literally on track to check things. I have it setup with my predictive lap, best lap of the session and last lap (standing lap). In the lower left is how many laps I have done which is also super useful to have. I usually get about 8 laps in a 20 minute session (not including out lap or in lap) so I know where I am in the session. 

 

So while I could pair the the Solo to a laptop between sessions, I find it much easier to use the racebox, and have that just record every lap I ever do at the track, and use the Solo while riding the bike. 

I like that idea a lot. I’ll be running a GoPro as a visual reference of what a lap looks like (lines, inputs, etc). The plan was to use a lap timer with that to analyze my laps. How much slower is my defensive line? What is the most consistent section of the track for me? Where am I wildly inconsistent? Etc etc. From there develop the good habits that make for a faster, consistent lap. I’ll probably pick this up before an AIM. Not that I don’t want the AIM, but things are getting costly quick at the moment. I wasn’t expecting sourcing a whole front end to build. 

6 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

I made a mount for a Solo2 that places it closer to me than the stock dash, using Robem's front fairing stay. I can see both the dash and the Solo2 readily and there is room for the cables and brake lines.

Can you share pictures of your mount and cockpit setup?

[bockscar]

6 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said:

That you prefer the bigger bore/higher leverage MC tells me you like a firm, short lever throw.

Yes for sure, I do. 

[bockscar]

if you have a spare $1400, this might be the move:

 

https://spearsenterprises.com/product/yamaha-r7-fully-adjustable-triple-clamp-set-with-15mm-drop/

[Ouroboros]

3 hours ago, bockscar said:

if you have a spare $1400, this might be the move:

 

https://spearsenterprises.com/product/yamaha-r7-fully-adjustable-triple-clamp-set-with-15mm-drop/

I was looking at these and wondering why they were a fair bit more expensive than the Robem R7 set.

https://www.robemengineering.com/product-page/yamaha-r7-adjustable-triple-clamps

The Robem set comes in at ~$925 and that would include all of the offsets. What am I missing? 

The Spears set looks quality. I'm never opposed to spending more if it means long service life and less hassle to live with.

EDIT: It looks like Spears includes a bit more hardware to mount it together. Without both item descriptions explicitly listing exactly what is reused, I think it's fair to say that the following are R7 specific parts and need purchased:

Top Clamp Part #3        90179-25004-00
Top Clamp Part #4        90201-26017-00
Top Clamp Part #5        90179-25615-00
Top Clamp Part #6        BEB-23418-00-00
Top Clamp Part #7        90201-22018-00
Top Clamp Part #8        1RC-23393-00-00

I used this video as a reference:

 

Edited December 10, 2024 by Ouroboros
clarity, new info found

[Ouroboros]

I spoke with Burch from Orientexpress Racing the other day. He gave me a lot of good information. His TLDR was that front end swaps are costly, and I'm better off cutting my losses and buying a R7. He's not wrong. I'm in too deep though (sunk cost fallacy at its best, blah blah blah). He advised me the following:

• Aim for buying the 17+ R6 fork assembly. Newer the better, but newer will be more expensive. He told me that there is a great deal of aftermarket support for 17+. I don't think I will use aftermarket carts from the get go. However, I have the option in the future should I desire.
• Fork extenders are only compatible with cartridge kits. This may be obvious but I didn't know this. Both KTech and Ohlins offer fork extensions for the 17+ fork. More on that below...

I read up on KTech's website that the 17+ R6 fork is longer than the FZ, so  extenders should not be necessary for my application. I should be able to raise them through the triple tree to reach optimum chassis numbers, correct? Fast forward to today. I "slept on it" and ultimately decided to pull the trigger. This was by far the nicest front end I could find on eBay and I would kick myself if I let this slip through my fingers. All stock, great cosmetic condition, and supposedly 10k miles on these. I made a deal with the seller that he would add the calipers for $100 extra. 

This leaves me with sourcing the following parts:

• 17+ R6 front wheels w/spacers
• 17+ R6 front axle
• 17+ R6 fender
• Brake pads
• Stainless lines
• Offset triple tree

Which leads me to dumping some more of my parts. Is anyone in the market for:

• Two front FZ07 wheels (one with a Road 5 mounted)
• A plug and play Ohlins cartridge equipped stock fork setup

 

 

 

[bockscar]

6 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

His TLDR was that front end swaps are costly, and I'm better off cutting my losses and buying a R7. He's not wrong. I'm in too deep though (sunk cost fallacy at its best, blah blah blah). 

 

 

 

What is the fun in that when you can take a low horsepower street commuter and spend a ton of money making it into a low horsepower compromised track bike!

I mean if you were going to buy an R7 for the track, might as well get an R6 and have something actually fast and track oriented

 

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, bockscar said:

What is the fun in that when you can take a low horsepower street commuter and spend a ton of money making it into a low horsepower compromised track bike!

I mean if you were going to buy an R7 for the track, might as well get an R6 and have something actually fast and track oriented

 

Now is probably a good time to stop pretending that I like money, huh?

EDIT: Small edit to say that I love this amount of power. I’m not sure I have the reflexes or skill to wrangle something as powerful as a 600 i4 or larger in displacement. I could maybe see myself moving up to a Kramer 890/KTM RC 990 in the future. Twins are just so much fun. 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Ouroboros

[M. Hausknecht]

Make sure you get the correct triples to go with the bigger forks than the previous R6 iteration. I'm forgetting whether the upper or lower hole is bigger (guessing lower), but one is by 2mm. If it were me, I'd also get a bigger bore master cylinder (17 or 18mm) to go with the larger calipers. The R6 MC will work, of course, but will have a longer throw and more progressive feel than the R6 MC with the 07 calipers.

 

[M. Hausknecht]

13 hours ago, bockscar said:

What is the fun in that when you can take a low horsepower street commuter and spend a ton of money making it into a low horsepower compromised track bike!

I mean if you were going to buy an R7 for the track, might as well get an R6 and have something actually fast and track oriented

 

He is building a race bike, not a track bike; properly done, they are different. A reason not to get an R6 is to stay out of the 6oocc meat grinder classes. Too many heroes with little brains, especially in the novice/amateur ranks. Besides, it is way more fun to ride a smaller bike fast than a bigger bike not so fast cause it is scary.

[Ouroboros]

46 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Make sure you get the correct triples to go with the bigger forks than the previous R6 iteration. I'm forgetting whether the upper or lower hole is bigger (guessing lower), but one is by 2mm. If it were me, I'd also get a bigger bore master cylinder (17 or 18mm) to go with the larger calipers. The R6 MC will work, of course, but will have a longer throw and more progressive feel than the R6 MC with the 07 calipers.

 

Great point. It looks like both the Robem and Spears units allow proper fitment. If you were in my shoes, which one would you go with? 

This is from the Spears page

 

  

38 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

He is building a race bike, not a track bike; properly done, they are different. A reason not to get an R6 is to stay out of the 6oocc meat grinder classes. Too many heroes with little brains, especially in the novice/amateur ranks. Besides, it is way more fun to ride a smaller bike fast than a bigger bike not so fast cause it is scary.

Not necessarily directed towards you, but I thought it important to reiterate the options and math for anyone else browsing this thread. I may be on some hard copium right now, but I see there having been two paths for me:

Cost effective and logical

• Sell my FZ/leave it "streetable" (though I no longer ride on the street) and buy a race prepped SV650 for sub $5k. It's a proven and competitive platform in the club racing twins class still to this day. I don't regret my choices, but I probably should have taken this path.

The expensive but logical path

• Buy a RS660 which is more purpose oriented. I'd still have to dump money into it. Or spend ~$15k for a turn key track prepped one. At that point, an EVO2 690S would be a substantially better value. Easier to live with and great resale. As said previously, this is the end goal. It's not a financially responsible move for where I'm at in life to do that.

Edited December 11, 2024 by Ouroboros

[etorty]

Hello!

I'm jumping aboard again, because I'm interested to upgrade the front of my MT-07 and the front if the new R7 can be one of the options.

In the "Spears" web page of the triple for the R7 I can read "original offset 30mm". The trail of the R7, in her original shape, must be 90 mm, and the Caster Angle is 23°40 (source: Yamaha web page for the R7).

So, according the formula "a = Rf*tan(ß) - d/cos(ß)" (where "a" is Trail, "Rf" is Radius of the wheel, "ß" is the Caster Angle, "d" is offset), I have some confusing results...

Assuming the offset is 30 mm, with this formula I obtain a trail of 97,65 mm (see pict).

 

If I do the reverse math, assuming the trail is 90 mm, I obtain an offset of 37,02 mm (see pict).

 

Where am I wrong? Many years has gone, now, from the moment I was at school as a student... so I AM wrong, somewhere. Please, someone can help me?

Edited December 12, 2024 by etorty
correction

[etorty]

And... another question: someone of you has measured the offset of the MT-07 precisely?

It's a substantial info, for me, in order to do the right steps.

[etorty]

I've found some others - confusing - infos.

On the Robem's R7 page, I can see that the R7 "neutral" offset is 26 mm (is this the stock offset?? Who knows...):

I can reach this page only by doing a screenshot, because of the age of my OS and some sort of incompatibility of all my browsers with this web page.

But: in the Forsaken Motorsports web page (link) I can read "The stock offset of the Yamaha R7 is set at 35mm". 

 

So... who is right?

As usual, on the web we can found anything... 

[M. Hausknecht]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:17 AM, Ouroboros said:

Great point. It looks like both the Robem and Spears units allow proper fitment. If you were in my shoes, which one would you go with? 

This is from the Spears page

 

  

Not necessarily directed towards you, but I thought it important to reiterate the options and math for anyone else browsing this thread. I may be on some hard copium right now, but I see there having been two paths for me:

Cost effective and logical

• Sell my FZ/leave it "streetable" (though I no longer ride on the street) and buy a race prepped SV650 for sub $5k. It's a proven and competitive platform in the club racing twins class still to this day. I don't regret my choices, but I probably should have taken this path.

The expensive but logical path

• Buy a RS660 which is more purpose oriented. I'd still have to dump money into it. Or spend ~$15k for a turn key track prepped one. At that point, an EVO2 690S would be a substantially better value. Easier to live with and great resale. As said previously, this is the end goal. It's not a financially responsible move for where I'm at in life to do that.

The SV is no longer competitive at the pointy end of the expert grid in either superstock or superbike configurations. In superstock form it does ok, not great, against the 07/R7, but gets killed by the Aprilia 660. In superbike form, the SV just doesn't produce enough power to keep up with a built 07/R7 or the 660. 85 rwhp is a lot with an SV, but easy with the CP2 and, of course, the 660. The 660 is a cool bike but still needs at least a few thousand dollars in parts to be a race bike. And parts aren't as widely available, and they cost more than the alternatives. Lotsa trade-offs.

The Evo2S is nice but the suspension and wheels (heavier and can't run a 180 rear) aren't up to the standards of the Evo2R. I have a good friend who, I believe, will put his S up for sale soon in the Atlanta area.  

The Spears triple doesn't appear to be compatible with your forks, and I don't see enough material to open up the lower clamp further (to 54mm). The Attack Performance triples for the '17+ R6 could probably be made to fit. 

 

[M. Hausknecht]

2 hours ago, etorty said:

I've found some others - confusing - infos.

On the Robem's R7 page, I can see that the R7 "neutral" offset is 26 mm (is this the stock offset?? Who knows...):

I can reach this page only by doing a screenshot, because of the age of my OS and some sort of incompatibility of all my browsers with this web page.

But: in the Forsaken Motorsports web page (link) I can read "The stock offset of the Yamaha R7 is set at 35mm". 

 

So... who is right?

As usual, on the web we can found anything...

The Robem triples do NOT have the stock offset offset. It is intended to yield suitable geometry with Robem's shock linkage and a 180/60or 65 rear tire. I believe the stock R7 offset is 35mm, which yields a less than ideal trail number. For track purposes, trail of between 95-100 mm seems to work best. 

[cosp600rr]

Dang, I havent been here in months and have missed all of this thread. I too have a very well built FZ-07 with a ton of upgrades and goodies. I went with a Robem/Matt Spicer built motor thats around 95 horsepower and its been very reliable. I have raced it for 3 seasons and sent it back to be refreshed once after the first season. It was in great shape and didnt need a whole lot except we found the case had cracked on the inside so needed to replace the cases. Mine has aRacer electronics and quickshifter also all set up by Matt and dyno tuned by him. I have the rear linkage and a Ktech rear shock. for the front end I ended up going with an R7 front end with Ktech cartridges and Robem adjustable triples. It worked out great and havent had any issues with setting it up and getting it handling how I wanted it to. Mine is a bit different in I have R6 bodywork on it mixed with FZ-07 and an R7 tail. With all that I used the R6 seat pan mated up to the R7 tail and the FZ-07 tank cover. It took some work to get it all matched up and looking right but the end result is pretty good I think. Here are a couple pictures because... why not!! LOL 

Ill try to pay more attention here and see if I can be helpful during your journey with the bike. If you have any questions about my setup feel free to message me. 

[Ouroboros]

10 hours ago, cosp600rr said:

Dang, I havent been here in months and have missed all of this thread. I too have a very well built FZ-07 with a ton of upgrades and goodies. I went with a Robem/Matt Spicer built motor thats around 95 horsepower and its been very reliable. I have raced it for 3 seasons and sent it back to be refreshed once after the first season. It was in great shape and didnt need a whole lot except we found the case had cracked on the inside so needed to replace the cases. Mine has aRacer electronics and quickshifter also all set up by Matt and dyno tuned by him. I have the rear linkage and a Ktech rear shock. for the front end I ended up going with an R7 front end with Ktech cartridges and Robem adjustable triples. It worked out great and havent had any issues with setting it up and getting it handling how I wanted it to. Mine is a bit different in I have R6 bodywork on it mixed with FZ-07 and an R7 tail. With all that I used the R6 seat pan mated up to the R7 tail and the FZ-07 tank cover. It took some work to get it all matched up and looking right but the end result is pretty good I think. Here are a couple pictures because... why not!! LOL 

Ill try to pay more attention here and see if I can be helpful during your journey with the bike. If you have any questions about my setup feel free to message me. 

Lovely build  I don't really know where to begin but I'll start here - my latest challenge is figuring out what is necessary to adapt the R7 triples to the FZ frame. What hardware do I need to buy to fit it all to the head tube if I went with the Robem set?

I posted a few messages below what I think I need, but otherwise this will be trial and error.

EDIT: Do you know what pitbull pin I would need with the Robem triple set? It looks like you use Woodcraft stands so you may not know this.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Ouroboros

[cosp600rr]

These are the parts list I bought to mount the R7 triples and forks to my bike. The steering head part of the frame is the same and the bearings are the same as the FZ/MT so fitting the R7 front on it is easy. I think putting the R6 forks on takes a bit more work. Thats part of the reason I went with the R7 forks and triples. 

 

 

 

[cosp600rr]

11 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Lovely build  I don't really know where to begin but I'll start here - my latest challenge is figuring out what is necessary to adapt the R7 triples to the FZ frame. What hardware do I need to buy to fit it all to the head tube if I went with the Robem set?

I posted a few messages below what I think I need, but otherwise this will be trial and error.

EDIT: Do you know what pitbull pin I would need with the Robem triple set? It looks like you use Woodcraft stands so you may not know this.

I dont know exactly what pitbull pin works as I use a Vortex front stand and I believe I had to modify it to work with my FZ triples but it also worked for the R7 triples. I think I didnt have one that was the right size so I used a smaller on and had to put something around it to make the pin shorter because with the full length of the pin the stand would hit the bottom of my upper fairing before it lifted the bike. That also could be because I have R6 bodywork on it.... Making things work that were not as the bike was from the factory always creates interesting solutions to problems you dont think about. Like the stand not working with the R6 bodywork on an FZ-07.. who da thunk it. LOL

[br4nd0n]

Here are the FZ-07 bearing specs.

Top:

25mm (inner dia) x 47mm (outer dia) x 15mm
SAC2547-1 MG KOYO
Dynamic: 10.7 kN
Static: 6.80 kN

 

Bottom:

30mm (inner dia) x 55mm (outer dia) x 17mm
SAC3055-1 KOYO
Dynamic: 14.4 kN
Static: 9.70 kN

 

The R6 1999 - 2005 is 30x47x12, 30x55x17 and the 2006-2020 is 30x47x12, 31x55x18. The R1 is roughly the same.

As long as you are within the outer diameter range and the dynamic and static loads are not far off, you should be fine.

 

Also, if you want a good list of swappable frontends look at allballsracing.com/forkconversion

[Ouroboros]

16 hours ago, cosp600rr said:

These are the parts list I bought to mount the R7 triples and forks to my bike. The steering head part of the frame is the same and the bearings are the same as the FZ/MT so fitting the R7 front on it is easy. I think putting the R6 forks on takes a bit more work. Thats part of the reason I went with the R7 forks and triples. 

 

 

 

I was inclined to originally go with the R7 front end but I was dissuaded. I think for good reason.

• Fork legs/assemblies are harder to come by
• Better aftermarket support for the R6 front end
• More rigid assembly

Based on what I've read from the Robem page, it looks like I'll just have to select the 50/54 in the drop down box when I place my order.

Thank you for the parts breakdown as well. Adding this to my parts spreadsheet for my next haul from Partzilla.

13 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

Here are the FZ-07 bearing specs.

Top:

25mm (inner dia) x 47mm (outer dia) x 15mm
SAC2547-1 MG KOYO
Dynamic: 10.7 kN
Static: 6.80 kN

 

Bottom:

30mm (inner dia) x 55mm (outer dia) x 17mm
SAC3055-1 KOYO
Dynamic: 14.4 kN
Static: 9.70 kN

 

The R6 1999 - 2005 is 30x47x12, 30x55x17 and the 2006-2020 is 30x47x12, 31x55x18. The R1 is roughly the same.

As long as you are within the outer diameter range and the dynamic and static loads are not far off, you should be fine.

 

Also, if you want a good list of swappable frontends look at allballsracing.com/forkconversion

This is an incredible resource that I had no idea existed. Thank you for linking.