2025 Club Race Build

[etorty]

3 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

• Fork legs/assemblies are harder to come by
• [...]
• More rigid assembly

Regarding the first problem, I can confirm that (at least in Europe).

Regarding the added rigidity for the R6 setup: please can you explain something more?

For what I know, it's a fork with 41 mm stanchion. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances in "the old good days" were tighter? Or there's some other things I don't know? I'm really interested. I don't do races, or track days... only route, some two/three days trips, or so.

I would like to change my front end with a set of forks usd, and a set of R7 (or MT-09 m.y.2018) forks will be enough for my needs (adding a set of Bitubo cartridges). My main concern, and the main reason for the R7 choice is the offset: with 35 mm (R7) and the caster angle of the MT-07 (24,8°) I can obtain a trail of 100 mm. If I go down with the offset to the 30 mm (R6), with the same caster angle of 24,8° (this can't change) I obtain a trail of 106 mm... that can be excessive for me, I think.

The original trail of the 07, according Yamaha, is 90 mm.

But with the maths (considering the real offset 40 mm, caster angle 24,8°) I obtain 95 mm of trail.

So, comparing the results from the maths, at this moment I have 95 mm of trail and going to the R7 triple trees I'll have 100 mm of trail, which can be an acceptable change for my needs.

At this moment, the only real problem with the R7 triple is the upper part. I can't use the original one because of the lack of the support for the headlight and (more important) the excessive thinness of the main plate in order to screw in the risers. But the R7 tree has the right geometry, the support of the main switch, and the lower plate has the holes for the hardware that is present on the MT-07 (lower headlight support and brake hose bracket). Actually I'm at a standstill.

[Ouroboros]

28 minutes ago, etorty said:

Regarding the first problem, I can confirm that (at least in Europe).

Regarding the added rigidity for the R6 setup: please can you explain something more?

For what I know, it's a fork with 41 mm stanchion. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances in "the old good days" were tighter? Or there's some other things I don't know? I'm really interested. I don't do races, or track days... only route, some two/three days trips, or so.

I would like to change my front end with a set of forks usd, and a set of R7 (or MT-09 m.y.2018) forks will be enough for my needs (adding a set of Bitubo cartridges). My main concern, and the main reason for the R7 choice is the offset: with 35 mm (R7) and the caster angle of the MT-07 (24,8°) I can obtain a trail of 100 mm. If I go down with the offset to the 30 mm (R6), with the same caster angle of 24,8° (this can't change) I obtain a trail of 106 mm... that can be excessive for me, I think.

The original trail of the 07, according Yamaha, is 90 mm.

But with the maths (considering the real offset 40 mm, caster angle 24,8°) I obtain 95 mm of trail.

So, comparing the results from the maths, at this moment I have 95 mm of trail and going to the R7 triple trees I'll have 100 mm of trail, which can be an acceptable change for my needs.

At this moment, the only real problem with the R7 triple is the upper part. I can't use the original one because of the lack of the support for the headlight and (more important) the excessive thinness of the main plate in order to screw in the risers. But the R7 tree has the right geometry, the support of the main switch, and the lower plate has the holes for the hardware that is present on the MT-07 (lower headlight support and brake hose bracket). Actually I'm at a standstill.

I'm just going on what more knowledgeable people have said as I have no experience otherwise. As @M. Hausknecht has previously said, he could feel flex in his stock front end when going at pace. Of all the people that understand this platform that I've seen on track, they all run a R6/R1 front end. I don't recall feeling the flex sensation for the past two seasons that I've been regularly doing TDs and started racing, but it's the general consensus among very fast people says otherwise. I am not one of those people so I can't tell you. I will never know either because I am ditching it entirely.

Unless you have money to burn, I don't see why you wouldn't go with cartridges in your FZ fork for a bike that mostly lives on the street. It's a good middle ground and I doubt you will run into any limitations. If you do, you are going way too fast for public road conditions. I've been running my Ohlins cart kit on track and have been very happy with them. The Ohlins setup is drop in and offers plenty of adjustment for the street if you have the right spring in there.

 

[cosp600rr]

16 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I was inclined to originally go with the R7 front end but I was dissuaded. I think for good reason.

• Fork legs/assemblies are harder to come by
• Better aftermarket support for the R6 front end
• More rigid assembly

Based on what I've read from the Robem page, it looks like I'll just have to select the 50/54 in the drop down box when I place my order.

Thank you for the parts breakdown as well. Adding this to my parts spreadsheet for my next haul from Partzilla.

Since I didnt go with the an R6 Front end then Im not sure of what parts you need. These parts are all for the R7 front end because the top triple clamp is different than the FZ-07 so the hardware for the top of the steering stem was different. I have no Idea what is needed to convert to the R6 front. You will have to do your own research on that one.

[Ouroboros]

3 hours ago, cosp600rr said:

Since I didnt go with the an R6 Front end then Im not sure of what parts you need. These parts are all for the R7 front end because the top triple clamp is different than the FZ-07 so the hardware for the top of the steering stem was different. I have no Idea what is needed to convert to the R6 front. You will have to do your own research on that one.

Don’t sweat it. You gave me the missing piece of info I needed. I’m pretty sure I have it all sorted.
 

I’ll do my best to document the swap for others that choose to do the same. I’m thinking I will address the high points in this thread, and make a consolidated write up in another. There’s ~5 of you that have been so kind enough to share your knowledge and give me much needed direction. I want to pay it forward to others. 

[Ouroboros]

Friendly reminder for you guys to keep up to date on what I'm selling. That's what's funding my build after all  My loss can be your gain!

I'm still gathering pictures and doing some prep work, but I will have the following listed soon. By the time you see this they may be live.

• Front wheel (black) with a Michelin Road 5 mounted. Rotors and spacers included.
• Front wheel ("blurple" as I like to call it). No tire mounted. Rotors and spacers included.
• Left and right fork leg assemblies with Ohlins FKS cartridge internals and fork protectors
• Front axle
• Spiegler braided stainless lines (front)
• Vortex adjustable levers (clutch and brake)

 

[M. Hausknecht]

On 12/14/2024 at 6:26 PM, etorty said:

 

Regarding the added rigidity for the R6 setup: please can you explain something more?

For what I know, it's a fork with 41 mm stanchion. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances in "the old good days" were tighter? Or there's some other things I don't know? I'm really interested. I don't do races, or track days... only route, some two/three days trips, or so.

 

There is more to fork stiffness than the tubes. With the R1 and R6 (beginning in 2017), the aluminum fork sliders (into which the tubes slide) were made larger to add stiffness to the fork assembly as a whole. Riding on the street, you're highly unlikely to feel the stiffness difference between the stock forks and R6 forks or R1 forks.  The differences manifest themselves only at very high loads (high lean angles with sticky tires, and braking hard enough to lift the rear wheel). Of course, if the damping is better in one set of forks over another, you'll notice that riding on the street. 

[etorty]

Thank you for this detail about the dimensions of the sliders!

[Ouroboros]

More content that you ladies and gentlemen subscribe for!

When you receive something as sensitive as a fork assembly in a box like this and you can hear everything moving around in it, your heart drops to your stomach. FedEx was not very kind to this package.

Fortunately, nothing appears to be damaged and it looks just as it was advertised on eBay. The seller packaged the calipers just as goofy as he did the front master cylinder that I previously received from him (clearly brake fluid everywhere) but it should clean up. Calipers are a dime a dozen. Fork legs in this immaculate condition are not. There is no binding and after doing a quick bench test, I can confirm that they both feel fine through their range of travel. I don't think I did too bad for ~$900 shipped. I still intend to tear them apart and make sure the internals are healthy. 

I saved the best for last. Pictured below is my FZ fork leg next to the new R6 leg. Bang on per K-Tech's website, the 17'+ fork leg appears to be marginally taller. No fork extensions required ladies and gentlemen! There will be a little poke through the triple tree but that's not a big deal. To @M. Hausknecht previous points, these legs are BEEFY. All of this lines up with a previous inquiry from one of the folks at MRP suspension. I've tapped so many people and I find it mind blowing that nobody around seems to be able to rattle off info for these swaps since they're so common. I digress. If you live on the east coast of the US, they are the real deal. I've had them service my rear shock before. Quick responses and top tier work.

 

 

I will have to cross reference part numbers, but I'm willing to bet that I can reuse some of the R6 triple hardware if they line up with the R7 part numbers previously referenced.

I placed an order a few days ago for the following:

• A fully assembled used 17+ R6 front wheel (rotors, axle, spacers, even a mounted tire)
• A mostly bare, used 17+ R6 front wheel
• Robem R7 triple

More pictures to follow as I receive things. It's slow this time of year for work. I am hoping to mentally dial it down in that area and begin to put that energy towards getting this all sorted.

EDIT: Small edit - requesting a second set of eyes. I just compared a parts fiche between a 2018 R6 and a 2022 R7 and none of the "STEERING" parts seem to be shared. It's generally the same sequence and style of parts. However, the part numbers do not match up exactly. Not a big deal. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Ouroboros

[Ouroboros]

Wheels

I’ve parted out most of my stock front end. My Ohlins equipped fork legs sold for more than I expected, and my two stock front wheels are gone. I still have the OE triple clamps, front MC, and a few other miscellaneous bits that I’m probably forgetting.

I placed an order for two 17+ R6 front wheels. The bearings roll smoothly and are free. Seals look good as well. One of the wheels is basically brand new.

The other is a little rougher than I anticipated. It looks like it came stock in the fluorescent yellow and the previous owner attempted to rattle can it black. The finish is flaking and messy to handle. The big selling point of the “rougher” condition wheel is that it came with the spacers, front axle and both rotors which seem to be serviceable (more on that later). New OE rotors are expensive so ultimately, I believe the purchase was worth it.

I’ve concluded that I have three options:

1. ($) Cut my losses and sell the wheel. It is straight after all. Use that money towards a nicer front wheel that I’ve been eyeballing for a month now.
2. ($$) Get the front wheel powder coated. I would most likely get the rear coated to match.
3. Disregard aesthetics. Race bikes aren’t pretty. They’re mechanically sound, purpose-built machines. Designate it as my front with a wet tire mounted, which realistically won’t see a lot of track time. This is my copium at play.

Rotors

I took a gamble on these and I believe it paid off. They were visibly straight, and per OE spec are thick enough to reuse. Fun fact – in the bicycle world, this spec is usually marked somewhere on the inner part of the rotor. I believe this rule generally applies to motorcycle discs as well from what I’ve read. However, I didn’t see that number etched/stamped anywhere. The R6 service manual states that minimum thickness is 4.5mm. Using the rivets as a reference point, I measured across the disc in its entirety. I think I have enough material that I can get a season out of these. Maybe more?

Wear was mostly even across both discs measuring at variations of +/- 0.1 of 5mm. I cleaned them up with a pass of brake cleaner, and then sanded them in cross hatch patterns with 400 grit per Dave Moss’ video. His suspension takes are controversial, but I think everyone can agree that his videos about braking components are solid. He's never let me down in that regard.

Some elbow grease later (right is cleaned up, left is before re-conditioning). The concentric lines you see are not grooved enough that you can catch a fingernail across one.

 

Front Calipers

They mostly checked out pretty good, but ‘pretty good’ is not the standard I want to hold myself to when it comes to a safety wear item. The pistons had loose dust on them and were in good shape. No worries there. Nothing else was immediately concerning until I looked at the pads. I found one side of the pads (throttle vs clutch side) to be more worn than the others. Surely that means a piston was sticking, yes? I decided on a complete teardown.

I cleaned the pistons to a spotless shine. Not pictured is the internals of the calipers. No debris or gunk. Dust seals and such looked fine.

It appears that FZ and R6 pads are interchangeable. These are stock pads from my FZ and the pads pulled from the R6 caliper which were stock as well. If I were to guess, the only difference is pad compound/material. They are dimensionally identical otherwise.

 

Other General Housekeeping Notes

Some quick hit updates:

• I ordered my Robem triples Dec 14th. I've had some back and forth with someone who's not Matt, but works with/for him. I'm still not clear on what the delay is. This is still pending.
  • I have an open inquiry about a compatible Pitbull pin. I don't believe it's documented anywhere (haven't checked the R7 forums) so I will be sure to drop that nugget of info here when I have it.
• I'm looking at buying the Racetech spring compressor and some of their other fork tools. Is anyone interested in a 41mm Motion Pro seal driver for their FZ? I need a 43mm driver now.
• I will be placing a huge Partzilla order soon for front end parts, caliper rebuild, and other misc consumables

Not as far as where I'd like to be, but I think I'm getting there. I hope everyone's 2025 is off to a good start. I'm so stoked for this upcoming season. 

 

Edited January 10 by Ouroboros
grammar/wording