Just wanted to post discussion about the redesigned MT07. Changes look good and I dig the new look. Changes include

• Inverted forks
• Slipper clutch
• Radial calipers on the front
• Spinforged wheels
• Ride by wire, optional "automatic clutch"
• Slightly different ergos

Price is unknown.

Reveal trailer: 

 

Looks like a different swingarm as well.

It took Yamaha like 10 years just to add some of this stuff and they still don't seem to have improved the frame. Meanwhile, the MT-09 and now R9 have had like 3 frame upgrades among other things.

3 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

Looks like a different swingarm as well.

It took Yamaha like 10 years just to add some of this stuff and they still don't seem to have improved the frame. Meanwhile, the MT-09 and now R9 have had like 3 frame upgrades among other things.

From MCN: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2024/october/yamaha-mt-07/

This new riding position works in tandem with a fresh 14.8kg tubular steel chassis that now offers a claimed 12-13% increase in torsional, longitudinal, and lateral rigidity. This also encompasses a new swingarm pivot, which bolts into a new rear arm.

In fact, only the headstock is carried over from the old machine, with even the conventionally mounted front forks ditched in favour of 41mm upside down units that are again nearly half a kilo lighter.

Curious how this will actually translate over compared to the first 3 generations.

Edited October 24, 2024Oct 24 by tomlichu

It's still a cheap steel tubular frame instead of an aluminum based one like on all of their other higher end motorcycles.

2 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

It's still a cheap steel tubular frame instead of an aluminum based one like on all of their other higher end motorcycles.

I'm not sure the 21+ Gen 3 mt-09 frame is anything to be boasting. My '23 xsr900 has that main frame - and I'm not impressed at all.  We've seen reports with evidence of these frames cracking at the engine mounts and triple tree yokes twisting completely off in moderate head on accidents (carrying a higher torque & heavier cp3 engine).

I would suggest that a cp2 700 carried in a tubular backbone is not a problem for a street machine. The '25 700 improved suspensions, ride by wire (and everything that comes with that), slipper clutch, lighter wheels, and radial master cylinder is the right stuff to punch the 700 to compete with all the other factions.

There is only one bike I would preference over this new cp2 700, that bike is the triumph 765rs.

12 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

It's still a cheap steel tubular frame instead of an aluminum based one like on all of their other higher end motorcycles.

KTM uses a "cheap steel tubular frame" too, with pretty good effects.  Then there's Ducati...  Plus there is the fact that steel has a far higher near infinite fatigue cycle than aluminum - aka it will pretty much last forever without cracking.   

Just sayin' different ways to reach the same goals.  The steel frame can work fine for lower cost to make a lower MSRP on the bikes and sell more, with the rider getting better performance for their money.

1 hour ago, klx678 said:

KTM uses a "cheap steel tubular frame" too, with pretty good effects.  Then there's Ducati...  Plus there is the fact that steel has a far higher near infinite fatigue cycle than aluminum - aka it will pretty much last forever without cracking.   

Just sayin' different ways to reach the same goals.  The steel frame can work fine for lower cost to make a lower MSRP on the bikes and sell more, with the rider getting better performance for their money.

To be fair, the KTM and Ducati frames are made from Europe's equivalent of chrome-moly steel; nothing,like the steel used in the 07. Additionally, their frames feature extensive triangulation, making them far more rigid than the 07's "backbone" frame design. But in the end, you tend to get what you pay for. The 07's frame is suitable for the bike's intended purpose and market segment.  

12 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said:

To be fair, the KTM and Ducati frames are made from Europe's equivalent of chrome-moly steel; nothing,like the steel used in the 07. Additionally, their frames feature extensive triangulation, making them far more rigid than the 07's "backbone" frame design. But in the end, you tend to get what you pay for. The 07's frame is suitable for the bike's intended purpose and market segment.  

 

My post was entirely to point out that steel isn't really a negative, that's the reason for the quote marks around the term "cheap steel tubular frame", Both KTM and Ducati use tubular steel and clearly work pretty darn good in any case.  The Yamaha YZF-R7, Suzuki GSX-9R, and Aprilia RS 660 were all represented in the Twins Cup standings in the top several positions.  So the steel frame bikes clearly were able to be made serviceable for racing.

I could have added some other bikes in there too, like the first Honda Interceptors in 83-85, the Yamaha FZ 600 in the late 80s-90s, the Honda F1-F4i, and early Ninja 600.  Let's face it, steel frames have worked pretty well over the years, especially for sporting street bikes ridden by 90% of the riders out there, while holding the price down. 

The Yamaha YZF-R7 ($9199), Suzuki GSX-8R ($9439), and Triumph Daytona 660 ($9195) are all running steel frames to keep all of them under $10,000.   Comparison would be $11,549+ for an Aprilia RS660 with an alloy frame.  I'd be the first to say the Aprilia is a lot of bike for the money, but not everyone has the extra $2000 to $2500 for one.   

No one is putting out a low priced alloy framed bike these days.  Imagine the gnashing of teeth if the R7 came out with an alloy frame and it was priced at $11,000.  

Edited October 26, 2024Oct 26 by klx678

I am more curious about the pricing now that they have nicer components. I am particularly excited that it comes with a default slipper clutch. I wonder how many, if any parts will be interchangeable between gen 4 and the previous gens. Curious if Hordpower would still be compatible even though the engine is the same.

5 hours ago, tomlichu said:

I am more curious about the pricing now that they have nicer components. I am particularly excited that it comes with a default slipper clutch. I wonder how many, if any parts will be interchangeable between gen 4 and the previous gens. Curious if Hordpower would still be compatible even though the engine is the same.

I'm sure the slipper clutch is the same as what is on the R7. You can already buy the needed parts to change your 07 clutch to a slipper clutch for $200-250. The motor is essentially unchanged and there doesn't appear to be a frame rail in the way, so the Hordpower should bolt right on.

Ride modes.. just my opinion, but MT07 absolutely doesn't need any.

Ride by wire = say goodbye to R6 throttle tube mod.

Would be great if they offered cruise control on manual, but so far it seems to only be a thing on the auto. It mentions that the bar has been lowered almost an inch and moved back about 1/2". I wonder if those new tank cut-outs account for the bar being even lower. On current gen, there's criminally little clearance between the bar and the tank at full lock in stock position. Bar can be rotated forward to fix it, but then it creates a weird up-sweep. 

Updates have to happen for the sake of... updates. Not seeing a single thing on the new model that would make me want to trade my 22. 

Ride by wire accommodates changes in the rate at which the throttles open, as part of a flash to the ecu. So it will be possible to do what the R6 throttle does.

Wonder if there will be aftermarket replacement headlights for these bikes? I can't get behind the robocop design language but the z900 and gsxr1000 aren't much better looking either I guess

On 10/26/2024 at 4:01 PM, Erci said:

Ride modes.. just my opinion, but MT07 absolutely doesn't need any.

Ride by wire = say goodbye to R6 throttle tube mod.

Would be great if they offered cruise control on manual, but so far it seems to only be a thing on the auto. It mentions that the bar has been lowered almost an inch and moved back about 1/2". I wonder if those new tank cut-outs account for the bar being even lower. On current gen, there's criminally little clearance between the bar and the tank at full lock in stock position. Bar can be rotated forward to fix it, but then it creates a weird up-sweep. 

Updates have to happen for the sake of... updates. Not seeing a single thing on the new model that would make me want to trade my 22. 

I agree, the 700 really doesn't need ride modes from what I've experienced...  well, maybe wheelie control! 😜

I'd agree with the cruise control, but one thing I don't know if the new bikes have that they should - self-cancelling turn signals.   Cruise would be icing on the cake.

My real dream bike is the Bezzi rendition of a Yamaha 700 street tracker.  Probably an unanswered dream though.   They already have the base machine to do it with the XSR frame with the detachable rear frame loop that could have one designed to fit a tail section long enough to have a tail light under the very end of the tail.   But then again, dreaming.  🥺

Yamaha getting sly letting AI to design render the tank.

The TANK!! The BLOODY TANK!!  Oh the humanity.

 

 

 

The suspension upgrade is welcome, at last, only took a decade to implement.  The brakes shoulda been upgraded like the R7.  It's ride-by-wire, just add cruise control with the manual clutch and be done with it.  Yet Yamaha failed to do that.  It's mind boggling.  All the other doodads is bull crap and irrelevant.  Get to know your dealer$hip because repairs and maintenance will be more complicated and expensive.  Buy the longest extended warranty kiddos, because Yamaha is targeting the new and handicap riders market.

She looks like the ugly step sister of the series. AI generated or Honda designed, seems like.  Did I mention the tank? It's the deal breaker right there.

Ok rant over, thanks for reading, and Merry Christmas all.

 

           

On 10/27/2024 at 8:39 AM, M. Hausknecht said:

Ride by wire accommodates changes in the rate at which the throttles open, as part of a flash to the ecu. So it will be possible to do what the R6 throttle does.

I haven't bought a QS yet. You've told me about the aRacer add on and I've read great things about the ease of installing an Annitori unit. Going RBW would allow QS capability and auto blip rev matches on downshift. I'm wondering if this means that RBW will be a drop in replacement for existing bikes. Maybe a newer OEM ECU would be necessary or a flash on existing ECUs of some sort? I want to say I've read the other day on the WERA forums that there's some balancing happening to the twins class in MotoA that will allow the RBW on the R7 and larger diameter throttle bodies. That would theoretically mean more power too.

What are your thoughts?

When racing with WERA or ASRA, just as examples, you are not constrained by MA's Twins Cup rules, so lots of things are possible.

A QS is worthwhile on a race bike, ride-by-wire is an unnecessary expense and complication if your bike hasn't come with it. It doesn't make a bike faster or more reliable. They are put on bikes to tame the power band, and to limit noise and emissions. The CP2 doesn't need taming. Just because it will be possible to put '25 07 TBs, ECU, and throttle assembly on an older 07 or R7 doesn't make it a good idea. Just learn how to brake and downshift simultaneously, it isn't difficult to do smoothly and effectively, especially with  good slipper clutch. You already have bored TBs big enough to make over 100rwhp with other changes, so that part of the equation is satisfied. You still need porting and cams (and more compression and revs) to make more power.  

 

On 12/27/2024 at 11:56 AM, Lone Wolf said:

 

Thanks for sharing that link, LW.  At about 1:42 into the video, it's interesting to hear Nate's(?) view on the effect of the airbox snorkel on power output of previous MT07 models.  Sounds like a 2 - 3 hp peak power penalty, per his observations.  Good stuff...

 

On 12/25/2024 at 5:03 PM, sweetscience said:

The suspension upgrade is welcome, at last, only took a decade to implement.  The brakes shoulda been upgraded like the R7. 

 

           

People say that, but I just watched a video about the MT-01 the beards and bikes guy bought at Mecum auction.  It was owned by Mike Corbin of Corbin seats.  It had all kinds of trick stuff, including the carbon fiber wheels.  One interesting thing was the front braking - it had a Berringer master cylinder, but still had the Advics calipers, the front end being from an R1. 

You'd think with all the money dumped in everything else there that Corbin would have upgraded the calipers...  unless he figured it wasn't really worth it, that the Advics brakes were sufficient for the job.   Just because they've been on Yamaha production bikes for decades doesn't mean they are not up to the job, especially for street use.  "Upgrading" would only be for eye candy, not actual necessity.   

In other words is the upgrade actually needed or is it more for appearances and ego.   Is it worth the extra cost for the average MT-07 rider?   Well with Yamaha keeping the "lesser quality old" Advics, even on the base 2023 R1, I think they're kind of telling us they have some faith in the Advics calipers... that added cost may be the breaking point on too many sales on a mid-size naked bike, considering the upgrade would likely be the Brembo and the cost is significant in that motorcycle price range.

I would say it would be much better if Yamaha simply offered an MT-07 sp with all the goodies for those who are willing to spend the money. 

 

 

In an a side note:

I'd venture to say changing master cylinders to one of the Brembo radial master cylinders Brembo recommended  would be the best upgrade and that is mainly due to hydraulic and mechanical leverage differences to the Brembo master cylinder now used.  About 1/2 the price of calipers and proven a good upgrade by @Pursuvant in an earlier thread (click here).   Full information on his XSR with the Brembo master cylinder.  The specific master cylinder was what was recommended when I contacted Brembo.  

 

Edited January 4Jan 4 by klx678

4 hours ago, klx678 said:

...I'd venture to say changing master cylinders to one of the Brembo radial master cylinders Brembo recommended...due to hydraulic and mechanical leverage differences to the Brembo master cylinder now used.  About 1/2 the price of calipers and proven a good upgrade by @Pursuvant in an earlier thread (click here).

Thank you @klx678 for the help and research you did working with Brembo, that was a few years ago hehe, that bike & mods has over 90K now, but I only did 82K of those.

Of all mods on my '19 xsr700 the Brembo 17RCS Corsa Corta is the single best mod that can be done to these CP2 bikes. *After you get ECU flashed

The Brembo is excellent, I have a Spiegler brake line in route that I will be using next week to bring that same 17RCS over to my '23 XSR900.

That 900 has the same size caliper pucks as the 700 - further making it questionable - why would you upgrade those '24 700 calipers, if the displacement of those calipers is right for the stock 900?

Here's some numbers from my 2 bike's mod/maint files... (FYI you should learn how to calculate master cylinder to calipers displacement ratio)

--------

'19 700 - OEM master cylinder is 15mm and caliper pistons are 27/30mm for a hydraulic area ratio of about 29:1 (an entry level brake) **check this fact for '24 700 is still same **. The Brembo 17RCS mod (on the xsr700) pushes that ratio to about 22:1

'23 900 - OEM stock equipment Brembo 16mm master cylinder diameter = 201 mm squared. The factory XSR900 calipers to master cylinder ratio is 25.5 (5118mm sq. / 201.06mm sq.)

900 - Mod to add Brembo 17RCS Corsa Corta Master cylinder 17mm diameter = 227mm squared. The XSR900 calipers to master cylinder ratio will be 22.5 (5118mm sq. / 227mm

The great thing about math, you can explicitly see and expect results in feel & power to be very similar by knowing the ratio (displacement) of master cylinder to caliper.

Rule of thumbz...

Ratio of caliper pistons area to master cylinder area. The general design rule-of-thumb for twin rotor brake systems is as follows:
30:1 - soft feel
27:1 - sweet spot for design
23:1 - firm feel
20:1 - wooden feel

This is not set in stone, but it is accurate.

------------

You can see I still like and aim for about 22:1 ratio for front brake. 

I expect if you are a sport rider, you will like it too

On 10/24/2024 at 5:55 PM, br4nd0n said:

It's still a cheap steel tubular frame instead of an aluminum based one like on all of their other higher end motorcycles.

Relatively speaking, I understand the use of that word "cheap" in this context. But there is nothing cheap about tubular moto frames properly engineered for moto.

 

He put a prior generation exhaust on the new 2025 model

Anyone know if the ride-by-wire electronic throttle can be adjusted in terms of throttle free-play?  I ask because I prefer virtually zero free-play.