Wrong fork bushings installed at factory - heavy wear ensues

[pattonme]

@howlinhoss' forks had the wrong bushings and 2 areas about the size of a pinky nail was noticeably worn.

[rick]

Well, add bigtwin to that list. He's in the Netherlands. The bike is still really new so now visible wear. But the end gap was clearly wrong.

[kamalv]

Happened upon this thread today. Read all pages. So there isn't much to do at this point eh?
 
I am at 13K miles. Commuting daily on it this summer. I haven't particularly noticed anything amiss. But then, I am not sure I would unless it is in my face. Quite confident my Yamaha dealer will not be helpful. /sigh

[pattonme]

Yeah official action gets less likely by the passing week. Just schedule yourself for a maint session when it's convenient and swap the right from wrong. And while you're at it, evaluate any changes you want to pursue at the same time.

[jcramin]

I just put Traxxion Dynamics suspension in my FZ-07 and put new bearings in just because. BUT I got my bearings from the dealer and from the pics I took it looks like they are the wrong ones and I will have to tear my forks apart put in new bushings when I buy the correct ones.

[jcramin]

The other question is. Since the bearing is wearing is it also wearing the bottom fork tube that it slides up and down in ?

[bmwpowere36m3]

The other question is. Since the bearing is wearing is it also wearing the bottom fork tube that it slides up and down in ?

 
 
Yes, it's always wearing to a degree... but when you lose the teflon coating the wear increases significantly.

[noname]

@pattonme . I am new to the forum and I am glad that I found this post. I have been lurking for a few months now, but this will be my first post. I am planning on doing your full cartridge upgrade in the future. More than likely this winter where the riding season is not so pleasant in Washington. I am wondering if a few thousand miles on these questionable bushings will do any damage to the forks, increasing the parts needed to do my forks when I send them to you?
 
What would be the worst case scenario if I sent the forks into you at 10K miles. Would there be possible large parts that would need to be replaced by you for the cartridge conversion, or even worse, my forks would be completely unusable?
 
Thanks sir!
 

[pattonme]

Haven't seen FZ07 forks with quite that many miles on them yet. The bore of the fork lower is pretty sloppy so I don't expect even if the teflon is completely worn thru today, that you'll be cutting into the aluminum side walls. That would definitely be a new low in this saga. Keep riding. Enjoy the weather. I would put the likelihood of the degree of damage to be very remote. Now, another 20,000 miles from now the story is likely to be different.

[noname]

Haven't seen FZ07 forks with quite that many miles on them yet. The bore of the fork lower is pretty sloppy so I don't expect even if the teflon is completely worn thru today, that you'll be cutting into the aluminum side walls. That would definitely be a new low in this saga. Keep riding. Enjoy the weather. I would put the likelihood of the degree of damage to be very remote. Now, another 20,000 miles from now the story is likely to be different.

Thank you sir! I am going to enjoy the Seattle weather and just prepare for the gloom of fall/winter here. I'm anxious to get my forks done for sure though, so I'll be contacting you in a few months! 
 
Cheers.
 

[sorkyah]

Haven't seen FZ07 forks with quite that many miles on them yet. The bore of the fork lower is pretty sloppy so I don't expect even if the teflon is completely worn thru today, that you'll be cutting into the aluminum side walls. That would definitely be a new low in this saga. Keep riding. Enjoy the weather. I would put the likelihood of the degree of damage to be very remote. Now, another 20,000 miles from now the story is likely to be different.

Im actually anxious to get mine in to you, theyll probably have about 13k on them by the time i get to send em out in september.
 

[hobbs]

Hopefully when I move and have some time off in December, I'll be able to send my forks in. They'll have 15-20k miles. Lately the front end has been feeling... well, off. Maybe I just ride a little harder and the suspension is showing its hand, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the bushings heavily worn.
 
Either way, the improvement couldn't be more welcomed.

[jcramin]

I have had my FZ-07 a year, I bought it last August and put 3200 miles on it. Most of it two up with my daughter and mostly aggressive riding. I rebuilt my suspension last weekend and put new Yamaha bushings in and I looked at my old bushings last night. They had zero wear on them.

[bmwpowere36m3]

I have had my FZ-07 a year, I bought it last August and put 3200 miles on it. Most of it two up with my daughter and mostly aggressive riding. I rebuilt my suspension last weekend and put new Yamaha bushings in and I looked at my old bushings last night. They had zero wear on them.

 
 
Did the original bushings have a large gap when installed?

[pattonme]

Pics of the old bushings @jcramin, if you don't mind.

[jcramin]

Yep old bushings and new bushings both have large gaps when installed.
 
I will be happy to take pics of the old bushings but honestly, they looked just like the new ones I put in. Literally no wear can be seen on either one.
 
I've talked to some suspension companies and my local dealer about this. My dealer seems to think Yamaha used different suppliers for the factory bushings and the space is different between the suppliers. The gap in our bearings do the same think the hole in other bushings do. They equalize the pressure between the fork tubes.

[pattonme]

Funny you should mention 'the gap equalizes pressure'. I've been having the exact same conversation with a Traxxion rep. Traxxion drills a hole in the stanchions when you send them in for the AK-20 treatment so oil bleeds out from the inside into that outer area.
 
I'm not convinced this pressure thing is something that really matters. The top bushing is hardly air-tight and forcing fluid into that space along the stanchion wall isn't a concern. Air can fill the area between the 2 tubes just as well.
 
Even with the 'tight' (properly fitting) bushings, oil can get by since there still is a ~1mm gap. I think the 'wide-gap' proponents are making excuses. If a more than minor gap was really necessary, then the proper thing to do is cut the correctly fitting bushing so it has a wider, native gap, and not force a gap by installing an under-sized bushing and distorting it. The highly concentrated wear pattern results from the bushing no longer being round.
 
Said rep was of the opinion the factory installed bearing was doing it's job wearing the fork lower into 'shape' (think piston rings finishing the wall) and so heavy wear was perfectly acceptable. And that owners should install new bushings "soon" after buying their bikes and that the next set of bushings wouldn't wear nearly as much. I say BS.
 
 

[rick]

Said rep was of the opinion the factory installed bearing was doing it's job wearing the fork lower into 'shape' (think piston rings finishing the wall) and so heavy wear was perfectly acceptable. And that owners should install new bushings "soon" after buying their bikes and that the next set of bushings wouldn't wear nearly as much. I say BS.
 

Wow! The whole idea of having a nice soft teflon coating on those bushings is so the aluminum slider does not get worn out in the 1st 1k miles. What makes that guy think the 2nd set of bushings would fit the now distorted slider?  
 
 
 
 
 

[jcramin]

I will take pics of my factory installed bushings with 3000 miles on them. But like I said mine had zero wear. Maybe it has to do with a production period that used different or bad bushings ?

[bmwpowere36m3]

Especially since there's no locating tab/pin for the bushing... so the gap is positioned randomly on the fork tube.

[pattonme]

If the bushing wasn't such a gosh darn stiff material (the bad one is heavily sprung) then having 'ovalized' the tube with the first set, the second would spin itself into alignment with the wear pattern. He said the HardleyAbleson bikes that come in for the AK20 kit with as few as 200 miles on them the bushings are destroyed. But he rightfully suggested that HD doesn't properly finish their fork lowers or specifies insufficient polishing so the wall is needlessly abrasive.
 
He said that when they get them back for periodic servicing the bushings are fine. Yeah well I have a sneaking suspicion the bushings installed as part of the AK20 are DIFFERENT than OEM. They might still have a gap but it's because it's cut shorter and not because it's distorted and sprung.

[rick]

Dunno if anyone is keeping count anymore - but I just pulled my forks apart and, as expected, my lower bushings were also the wrong size with a near 5mm end gap. Have just about 2k miles and I could see some of the brass shining thru the teflon.
 
All-Balls to the rescue

[duenan]

@pattonme how easy is this to remedy ourselves if we were to buy that all balls 38-6096 kit?  Is this something that can be DIY for people who have say changed their own exhausts and such or is it more complicated than that?
 

[pattonme]

You have to split the forks to get at it. Need ratcheting cinch strap, vise or 2nd pair of hands, impact wrench (your own or borrow 30 seconds at a service station), long reach hex bit on a socket and you're good to go. A tap and/or die to chase the threads is useful too - some of them are just horrible. You'll want new oil seals, crush washers, new fork oil of a suitable weight, etc. If you can get the bolt to come out and not just spin, the rest is easy.
 
I have bushings, seals, as well as the -6096 kit on hand if interested. The upper bushing is fine and won't need replacing for some years so the kit might be overkill.
 
 

[rick]

 If you can get the bolt to come out and not just spin, the rest is easy. 
 
 

Yep, hee, hee, - the rest is pretty easy - although it did take me an hour to put the front fender back on. Sheesh, soo many bolts for one little fender (3 pieces of plastic, 2 brackets and 10 bolts total iirc., btw) Take pictures before! 
The long hex key you'll need is 8mm. I cut a standard hex key (sacrificed for the cause) about 2.5" long to reach in. The ol' Ingersoll Rand impacter was pumped to 100 psi and on setting 5 of 5 to break those red-loctited mothers free. 
 
You will obviously also need to be able to support the bike's weight up with something. I loosened everything - including the fork caps (22mm, which can be done with just moving the instruments and loosening the bar mounts) while on my rear lift before I hoisted it up on my stem left. Thankfully, nothing was stupid tight - as it should be.
 
You'll also need a piece of PVC pipe (or you can buy a proper tool)  to tap the seals back in place.