Stalling Issues?

[fooschnickens]

I finally had a stall that wasn't me just learning the engage point for the clutch for the first 50 miles. I was cruising along at about 35mph when I had to stop suddenly. I pulled the clutch in and braked hard and after I got my wits about me after coming to a stop realized the bike had died. I still had the clutch in so it hadn't stalled from being in gear while coming to a stop. I've done panic stops before trying to figure out he threshold for these brakes, but I've never had it stall while doing them under basically the same circumstances.

[Beemer]

This is the one comment (thank you olderthandirt) that has made the most sense to me and I'm betting it's correct - "Our bikes have a "fuel cut off" that is triggered by the CPU at closed throttle. Thank you EPA for the closed loop super lean nonsense. When you rev the bike at a stop...or downshift coming to a stop...or if the temp is high {over 90 degrees usually} the fuel to the motor is abruptly turned on and off....and that makes the bike stall."
 
I just went to my Yamaha dealership yesterday to address the stalling issue, told them I wanted my idle bumped up 100 rpm because it apparently worked for someone else with the same problem (I mentioned a lot of FZ 07 owners on this forum had this stalling issue) and the man said he hasn't heard of the FZ 07's doing that but 5 minutes later another employee behind the service desk said they did get a letter from Yamaha stating that there was an issue with the bike stalling out but not to mention it to a customer unless said customer complained of stalling issues. Well, I did bring it up and you would think that they would be able to fix the problem since I'm sure Yamaha told them exactly what was causing it/how to fix it but no. They bit their lips for some reason and their lead tech said several things in writing, verbatim)) >>>
 
 
DESCRIPTION: Engine stalls when taking off from stop.
 
LABOR:
Description
Check & Advise      Job Code(none) Quantity(0.5 hours) Total($52.38)
 
Recommendations         Resolution
                                    1. Can not adjust idle
                                    2. Has IAC valve that controls it
                                    3. Idle is within spec 1100 to 1300
                                    4. Not familiar with EJK Tuner
                                    5. Recommend Power Commander to allow cycle to be tuned
 
I suspect the cat is telling the rat to play naive and sweep it under the table but what really pisses me off is the fact I told them I wanted my idle bumped up 100 rpm and if they couldn't do it they should've said so then instead of leading me on as though they might be able to adjust it when they couldn't,or so they say (protect the boss, Yamaha!!) and jack me up for $52.38 and no courtesy of a reach-around. I bet Yamaha is avoiding a recall and hoping most people will pay for an ECU tune to resolve the issue and I may be one of them, I can't stand the stalling and it could cause an accident. Any thoughts on my dealership, Yamaha or my perceived raping?
 
 

[Guest unknown]

Thats sucks Beemer, I would have told the dealership to pound sand on paying that bill. This is a warranty issue, and should be treated as such.

[rick]

Eh, I'm not buying much of any of that.
 
Sure, the IAC valve controls the idle - duh. But the map controls the IAC. It's not an independent piece of hardware. I have to believe that idle speed can be set thru the ECU. Maybe their set-up is "read only" except to copy entire new maps. It's also possible they just don't know how to play with it.
 
Didn't realize the idle RPM had such a large range. It's 1250 on my Rotax - period. Maybe if it was actually 1300 on this motor, it wouldn't stall.
 
Does bring up the question how that one shop adjusted one for someone.
 
That Yamaha knows and is apparently stone-walling this tells me that next year's model will see a map revision that will fix this. For us, this will mean pay up.
If Yamaha does come up with a map update to address this, well, that dealer really owes you a freebee.

[fooschnickens]

Glad I bought the extended warranty...

[rick]

Warranty will only pay to fix defects. Yamaha clearly doesn't consider the stalling thing a defect

[kakusaizou]

This is really pissing me off. I only have 20 miles on the bike and it has stalled multiple times. Not only is my foot throbbing from pain from stopping the bike from falling when it stalled on a downshift to 1, faced a close call during a turn. I initiated a left turn without realizing the bike had died until I cranked the throttle mid-turn. Incoming car had to slow down since I already initiated the turn and had to rely on the momentum to cruise through the turn.
 
I'm hoping Yamaha either steps up and address this issue or buy my bike back.
 
Question: will the bike crank over in gear and moving? Mine doesn't crank unless I'm in neutral after a stall. My eyes have to be on the road instead of the gear indicator so I'll pull over to a stop and shift into neutral before starting the engine again.
 

[so1102]

I've not had any stalling problems that weren't caused by my ineptitude (being hamfisted with the clutch and not enough throttle starting out), knock on wood though...

[fooschnickens]

This is really pissing me off. I only have 20 miles on the bike and it has stalled multiple times. Not only is my foot throbbing from pain from stopping the bike from falling when it stalled on a downshift to 1, faced a close call during a turn. I initiated a left turn without realizing the bike had died until I cranked the throttle mid-turn. Incoming car had to slow down since I already initiated the turn and had to rely on the momentum to cruise through the turn. 
I'm hoping Yamaha either steps up and address this issue or buy my bike back.
 
Question: will the bike crank over in gear and moving? Mine doesn't crank unless I'm in neutral after a stall. My eyes have to be on the road instead of the gear indicator so I'll pull over to a stop and shift into neutral before starting the engine again.

Check your kickstand and clutch switches. The bike will start in gear, but only if the stand is up and the clutch is pulled in. 

[kakusaizou]

This is really pissing me off. I only have 20 miles on the bike and it has stalled multiple times. Not only is my foot throbbing from pain from stopping the bike from falling when it stalled on a downshift to 1, faced a close call during a turn. I initiated a left turn without realizing the bike had died until I cranked the throttle mid-turn. Incoming car had to slow down since I already initiated the turn and had to rely on the momentum to cruise through the turn. 
I'm hoping Yamaha either steps up and address this issue or buy my bike back.
 
Question: will the bike crank over in gear and moving? Mine doesn't crank unless I'm in neutral after a stall. My eyes have to be on the road instead of the gear indicator so I'll pull over to a stop and shift into neutral before starting the engine again.

Check your kickstand and clutch switches. The bike will start in gear, but only if the stand is up and the clutch is pulled in.

I am speaking from a roll after the bike stalls while moving. I've pulled in the clutch and frantically slide the starter but nothing happens. 

[sorkyah]

Definitely check your kickstand. Also check fhe clutch switch. When mine was going through break-in i had the kickstand sieze up on me and be the cause of my stalling issue. After cleaning and lubing it, i didnt have an issue with it stalling again

[fooschnickens]

Check your kickstand and clutch switches. The bike will start in gear, but only if the stand is up and the clutch is pulled in.

I am speaking from a roll after the bike stalls while moving. I've pulled in the clutch and frantically slide the starter but nothing happens.

As am I. It's a known issue that either of these switches sometimes aren't plugged in completely from the factory so doublecheck them just to be sure. Most people find that their clutch switch is the offending party. 

[Beemer]

I think everyone should call up their dealership and ask them what Yamaha found as being the cause of the stalling issue since my dealership said Yamaha told them they had found one. Maybe that'll light a fire under Yamaha's arse. One or just a few people alone complaining about it will most likely be ignored (like I was) but a large number complaining all at once may rattle them. I will go back up there and ask the one guy who said that myself, see what he says or denies saying. If he denies saying it I'm going to the general manager and have a little discussion.

[vertigo]

I've not had any stalling problems that weren't caused by my ineptitude (being hamfisted with the clutch and not enough throttle starting out), knock on wood though...

 
 
Likewise. Also it will start while moving and in gear.

[pattonme]

I'll ping the Yam contact on this to see if he has any knowledge. But it just might need a coordinated letter-writing campaign with CC to Motorcycle Consumer News and maybe CycleWorld and Road Racing World, if not the NTSB.
 
Oh sure, the bike is supposed to restart while in gear with the clutch pulled and the side-stand up, but if it doesn't then it's a HUGE safety issue. If the switches are defective, not (quite) connected, or malfunctioning is no excuse on a bike that has spent less than a year out of the crate. The new owner (frequently a newer rider) should not have to stumble onto a forum and then re-do the job the Yamaha factory or the dealer was supposed to have done properly.
 
I've owned quite a few bikes and from all brands admittedly except for Yamaha (well WR250/400 aren't street machines), ride in all kinds of crap conditions, put 50,000+ miles on them and not ONCE has one failed to start on command or had a loose switch that put my life in danger, or that couldn't be bump-started while rolling. And I'll add that I didn't have to go back and fix the factory's screwups to arrive at said reliability. I've drowned the front spark plug on my SV650 several times in deluges and stalled it out because a 325CC SV doesn't work so hot, but it ALWAYS re-fired.
 
@beemer (or anybody else sufficiently fired up) why not start a thread for composing the open-letter, get a working draft, and those others of you who have experienced the more harrowing circumstances provide a ~3 line write-up.
 
Also, go back to that dealer and find that employee who had knowledge of the bulletin. And get a hard copy. Then also visit the other Yam dealers in your area. Some of these mega-multi-lines are just about slick showrooms and don't have good people or care about post-sales. Others, especially the guys who have been in business 20+ years, tend to be far more interested in a repeat customer than covering for corporate.

[Beemer]

Definitely a hard copy.

[raceblue]

I believe they only recalled the battery terminal after someone's bike caught on fire. It might take something tragic for Yamaha to do a recall. Look what it took for Takata to recall all of those deadly airbags. They've been fighting a recall for a long time. Yamaha should take the proactive approach and fix the problem immediately.

[Guest Ralph]

I suppose they feel they can afford to pee off about a third of MT owners without any backlash.
 

[mjh937]

I think part is the problem may be the number of people who bought this as their first bike. It is easier to dismiss it as rider error if there are a lot of new riders on it.

[fooschnickens]

I think part is the problem may be the number of people who bought this as their first bike. It is easier to dismiss it as rider error if there are a lot of new riders on it.

Maybe so, but it might come down to how these stall reports are getting to Yamaha. The customer may tell the dealer that they were in motion and the bike suddenly stalled, but the dealer may only tell Yamaha that "the bike stalled". So we could be looking at a case of telephone where there's a lapse of communication between customer and dealer, or dealer and Yamaha. 

[kakusaizou]

I am speaking from a roll after the bike stalls while moving. I've pulled in the clutch and frantically slide the starter but nothing happens.

As am I. It's a known issue that either of these switches sometimes aren't plugged in completely from the factory so doublecheck them just to be sure. Most people find that their clutch switch is the offending party.

Yeap. Now to figure out if it was from the factory or dealership like that. 

 

[rick]

Considering that so many of these little switches were delivered to customers either disconnected or whatever, I'm gonna guess it's something at the factory or in shipping.

[fooschnickens]

I'd say it's a combination of that and dealers not having those on their assembly checklist or techs just ignoring them to save time.

[aeisan]

I discovered my clutch sensor was disconnected (it either came that way or worked its way loose) when I stalled once and could not restart in gear. I plugged it back in and no issue since. I agree this seems to be a factory QC/QA issue since so many others report the same thing. Also, I understand that the "stalling issue" is two fold...
 
One part is the super lean factory ECU programming, most notably the "fuel cut off" loop. I don't doubt this plays a role in why so many folks stall, but Yamaha will say this is working as intended.
 
The other part is the operator. A good operator will take this info about the cut-off into account and operate the bike accordingly. Figuring out the intricacies of the throttle and clutch are just part of riding a bike.
 
I'm not trying to defend Yamaha (this is clearly a fail on their part) nor am I saying you suck if you stall your bike; I think we can agree the ECU is playing a large role in the amount of stalls but I also think the affect can be mitigated by throttle control. Once I figured out what not to do, I stopped doing it and the bike hasn't stalled since.

[magsz18]

I discovered my clutch sensor was disconnected (it either came that way or worked its way loose) when I stalled once and could not restart in gear. I plugged it back in and no issue since. I agree this seems to be a factory QC/QA issue since so many others report the same thing. Also, I understand that the "stalling issue" is two fold...  
One part is the super lean factory ECU programming, most notably the "fuel cut off" loop. I don't doubt this plays a role in why so many folks stall, but Yamaha will say this is working as intended.
 
The other part is the operator. A good operator will take this info about the cut-off into account and operate the bike accordingly. Figuring out the intricacies of the throttle and clutch are just part of riding a bike.
 
I'm not trying to defend Yamaha (this is clearly a fail on their part) nor am I saying you suck if you stall your bike; I think we can agree the ECU is playing a large role in the amount of stalls but I also think the affect can be mitigated by throttle control. Once I figured out what not to do, I stopped doing it and the bike hasn't stalled since.

So, 
What is the magic trick technique wise that prevents the bike from stalling while in gear and while moving?