rick Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 This whole malarky strikes me as totally unnecessary. Why is there a switch in this system at all? And what issue was Yamaha ostensibly trying to solve? The 'pat' answer to clutch lever settings is 2mm gap at the pivot end of the lever since that's the one that is easy and consistently measurable. Anyone tried taking the switch out of the equation?Well, like those pesky sidestand switches that won't allow you to put the tranny into gear while the motor is running, w/o the stand up 1st, the clutch interlock prevents the starter motor from spinning with the bike in gear w/o the clutch pulled. It's all about the lawyers protecting us from dumb ourselves. I'm actually more comfortable with that 2mm gap as that's what I've lived with for the past 12 years on my Futura. And man, even with an aftermarket slave cylinder that supposedly softens the pull, that clutch is a forearm workout. Imo, the stalling issue will go away when Yamaha gives the dealers a new map that bumps idle up, oh, say 50 RPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member phicurious86 Posted April 25, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted April 25, 2015 When I went in for my first service on 4/22, the only thing my mechs told me to worry about is how lean the fuel mix is at idle. They said it was close to .6% CO at idle! (mind you that was with the 02 sensor connected) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 When I went in for my first service on 4/22, the only thing my mechs told me to worry about is how lean the fuel mix is at idle. They said it was close to .6% CO at idle! (mind you that was with the 02 sensor connected) I'm not sure that number alone is of concern. CO is formed when the hydrocarbons in the gasoline are not completely burned to CO2. So a high CO is an indication of a rich mixture (not enough O2, incomplete combustion etc.) but a low CO number by itself is not really an indication of too lean. If combustion was 100%, CO levels would be 0. Yeah, that never happens Unfortunately, it really needs to be measured before the cat oxidizes it to CO2. A low CO at idle pretty much means our Cat converters are working and the motor is reasonably efficient - as it should be. In grey are optimum emissions levels http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/Emissions/airfuelratio5big.GIF That puts 0.6 pretty close to ideal at the optimal 14.7 AF ratio. This also is a good read http://web.archive.org/web/20060307212134/http://www.interro.com/techgas.html#anchortwo That said, I suspect that in closed loop (O2 sensor control) FI, this thing does run on the lean side to meet every stricter emissions (especially in the EU) and the more likely this thing will stall if stuck in traffic a lot. After my 35 mile ride last weekend, it was content and gave no indication of stalling. Most of that ride was out of town on back roads in open loop FI. And that would explain why mine never stalled until the weather got colder and my rides were slower/shorter and in more traffic. Even in cooler temps, with a lean mix, the combustion chamber is probably getting a bit hotter. Maybe for those who do a lot of commuting in traffic, it might not hurt to buy a medium octane gas instead of the low test 87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member phicurious86 Posted April 25, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted April 25, 2015 When I went in for my first service on 4/22, the only thing my mechs told me to worry about is how lean the fuel mix is at idle. They said it was close to .6% CO at idle! (mind you that was with the 02 sensor connected) I'm not sure that number alone is of concern. CO is formed when the hydrocarbons in the gasoline are not completely burned to CO2. So a high CO is an indication of a rich mixture (not enough O2, incomplete combustion etc.) but a low CO number by itself is not really an indication of too lean. If combustion was 100%, CO levels would be 0. Yeah, that never happens Unfortunately, it really needs to be measured before the cat oxidizes it to CO2. A low CO at idle pretty much means our Cat converters are working and the motor is reasonably efficient - as it should be. In grey are optimum emissions levels http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/Emissions/airfuelratio5big.GIF That puts 0.6 pretty close to ideal at the optimal 14.7 AF ratio. This also is a good read http://web.archive.org/web/20060307212134/http://www.interro.com/techgas.html#anchortwo That said, I suspect that in closed loop (O2 sensor control) FI, this thing does run on the lean side to meet every stricter emissions (especially in the EU) and the more likely this thing will stall if stuck in traffic a lot. After my 35 mile ride last weekend, it was content and gave no indication of stalling. Most of that ride was out of town on back roads in open loop FI. And that would explain why mine never stalled until the weather got colder and my rides were slower/shorter and in more traffic. Even in cooler temps, with a lean mix, the combustion chamber is probably getting a bit hotter. Maybe for those who do a lot of commuting in traffic, it might not hurt to buy a medium octane gas instead of the low test 87. A little more context. The test was done on my bike with a yoshi exhaust and no-cat converter. I may have misheard whether the mechs were referring to CO vs O, but their concern was that .6% was darn low and that they'd really like to see it in between 1 and 2%. (Thought I read about a similar concern in this thread earlier and was just confirming it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 there may be a bike shop around here that'll even do those measurements, but I'm not aware of it in 4 decades of riding. So you'll have more info have most I suspect. Are you still running 87 octane and does it ever ping in traffic when the motor gets hot? If that answer is yes to the 1st and no to the 2nd, I;d say not to worry about the numbers. Have a look at the plugs in 500 or maybe 1k miles. That will be a better indicator of what's happening. It would be interesting to know what the stock set-up reads. MIne as well as others that have this stall issue are still box stock. I wouldn't be surprised, that with yours @ 0.6% and never running closed loop where it will invariably run leaner, the stock set-up is even leaner at idle. Btw, if you had a car in England that was built after 1992 , it would be right on the ragged edge of failing the MOT emissions. w/ 0.6% CO. 1 or 2% would fail for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member phicurious86 Posted April 25, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted April 25, 2015 there may be a bike shop around here that'll even do those measurements, but I'm not aware of it in 4 decades of riding. So you'll have more info have most I suspect. Are you still running 87 octane and does it ever ping in traffic when the motor gets hot? If that answer is yes to the 1st and no to the 2nd, I;d say not to worry about the numbers. Have a look at the plugs in 500 or maybe 1k miles. That will be a better indicator of what's happening. It would be interesting to know what the stock set-up reads. MIne as well as others that have this stall issue are still box stock. I wouldn't be surprised, that with yours @ 0.6% and never running closed loop where it will invariably run leaner, the stock set-up is even leaner at idle. Btw, if you had a car in England that was built after 1992 , it would be right on the ragged edge of failing the MOT emissions. w/ 0.6% CO. 1 or 2% would fail for sure. Well the more I know =). I'm running 89 fuel and no pinging that I have ever detected. I had the stalling issue the first week of riding, but then I switched to revving the motor just a bit when in neutral at a light and haven't had an issue since. If I let the bike sit in neutral, when the engine is up above 180, I will sometimes, though not always, feel a little flutter or stutter in the engine as I touch the throttle. But I haven't stalled it since the first 200 miles. My shop offered to take a look at the levels again, the next time I'm in the neighborhood, but I think they were under the impression that I could do something about the idle fueling with the EJK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 My bike stalled yesterday while I was downshifting for a turn... video is below. Without reading through all 14 pages to see if anybody else had a similar problem, any insight might help. Did I let go of the clutch or something? Not sure what I did wrong here.... [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7OSKn6LQT8&feature=youtu.be] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkfz Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 This has happened twice in two days. Today, the second time I was in 4th rolling about 45, pulled the clutch in to downshift and noticed the engine was cut off. On a fresh oil change, not over heating, only 2300 miles on this bike. Any figure to the root of this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Next time it stalls on you guys while still moving, instead of coasting t a stop, with it still in gear, just let the clutch out quick and bump start it. Mines never stalled while moving. Only as I'm going to pull away from a stop. Time for everyone to start emailing Yamaha. Gotta get this dealt with before someone gets rear ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryv Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 The times it happened to me, I just hit the starter switch, but timing is everything. There were at least 2 times where I could have been rear-ended by a careless driver. Not a comfortable feeling! Next time it stalls on you guys while still moving, instead of coasting t a stop, with it still in gear, just let the clutch out quick and bump start it. Mines never stalled while moving. Only as I'm going to pull away from a stop. Time for everyone to start emailing Yamaha. Gotta get this dealt with before someone gets rear ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I've now taken 2 long rides since adjusting the clutch lever. It's now well out there now, with only about 2mm play at the gap. Not even a hint of stalling in close to 200 milee> Think I'm up around 860 miles now. Why it's stopped stalling? who knows. I guess i can live w/o knowing. Did about 170 miles out in the boonies yesterday with very little stop-go and virtually no highway drone. My gas mileage is now up around 68 (US)mpg! Math was never a strong suit, but this is silly. I'd love to see A:F ratios before the cat converter on this bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I've now taken 2 long rides since adjusting the clutch lever. It's now well out there now, with only about 2mm play at the gap. Not even a hint of stalling in close to 200 milee> Think I'm up around 860 miles now. Why it's stopped stalling? who knows. I guess i can live w/o knowing. Did about 170 miles out in the boonies yesterday with very little stop-go and virtually no highway drone. My gas mileage is now up around 68 (US)mpg! Math was never a strong suit, but this is silly. I'd love to see A:F ratios before the cat converter on this bike. Don't count on it not doing it again. After my 600 ml. oil change I went for about 500 miles without it happening and thought that fresh oil/being broke in made the difference and had put an end to it but it has stalled three times since I hit 1100 mls. I told my Yamaha dealership about it and they were clueless, said they haven't heard about stalling issues and told me to bring it in. I told them that someone on this forum had their idle bumped up 100 rpm and seemed to make a difference for them/theirs and they said for $26 they can take a quick look at it and assess it. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Oil age, break-in time, clutch, none of these esoterics, imo, has anything to do with this. Considering the gas mileage this 700 is capable of, I suspect it runs very lean and it's likely far worse is closed loop FI - read lower rev range. So for me, my stalls have been in city driving When I 1st got this thing, I was barely in town with it and it never stalled. Later in the fall, my rides were shorter and I wasn't out in the boonies much and that's it started to stall. Now that I'm back out into the countryside again, it's not stalling. We'll see. The real fix? Well, raising the idle even 50 RPM can't hurt - as long as they do it thru the computer and don't mess with the throttle stop screw. The map might stand some adjustment as well. YAmaha will wind up doing something about this. Hopefully it won't take someone getting hurt before that happens. 26 bucks, could be worse. My Aprilia shop charges 90/hour for labor. Not sure I'd let them even touch my Futura. The Yamaha shop where I bought the FZ, they'll have to look long and hard before ever seeing me again. I won't even go there for a state inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maalna2 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I had my first stall today. Just hit 500 miles on the way home from work. Outside temp was about 93 humidity was around 40% and bike temp was 217. I was at a stop sign was about to take off. Clutch had not hit the friction zone yet or at least not that I could feel. Stalled but started right back up no problem. The one thing I have noticed though is that it seemed to idle lower/quieter than before. I onpy mention the temps because last time I read this thread people in the warmer climates were the ones experiencing the stalls. Not sure if that is still the case but seems like my bike did not like the first hot day it had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member crazycracka501 Posted May 8, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted May 8, 2015 Has anyone with this problem tried the EJK from our supporting vendor Dobeck Performance to see if that fixes the issue? They have maps for stock bikes without exhaust or snorkel removed & for $250.00 it may be cheaper than going to a mech to figure it out. Make it stop!....Now make it go faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maalna2 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I wonder if @unknown or @pattonme could mention this to their Yamaha rep. they are working with about the suspension issue and see if he has heard anything about it or knows if they are looking into it or a fix for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes I have mentioned it but this one is going to be a lot more difficult to "prove". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest unknown Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I haven't mentioned it to him yet and I haven't heard back from him in a while. It just stalled on me for the first time in about 3,000 miles yesterday on my way to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maalna2 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes I have mentioned it but this one is going to be a lot more difficult to "prove".That is true can this one can be pushed off as user error a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Oil age, break-in time, clutch, none of these esoterics, imo, has anything to do with this. Considering the gas mileage this 700 is capable of, I suspect it runs very lean and it's likely far worse is closed loop FI - read lower rev range. So for me, my stalls have been in city driving When I 1st got this thing, I was barely in town with it and it never stalled. Later in the fall, my rides were shorter and I wasn't out in the boonies much and that's it started to stall. Now that I'm back out into the countryside again, it's not stalling. We'll see. The real fix? Well, raising the idle even 50 RPM can't hurt - as long as they do it thru the computer and don't mess with the throttle stop screw. The map might stand some adjustment as well. YAmaha will wind up doing something about this. Hopefully it won't take someone getting hurt before that happens. 26 bucks, could be worse. My Aprilia shop charges 90/hour for labor. Not sure I'd let them even touch my Futura. The Yamaha shop where I bought the FZ, they'll have to look long and hard before ever seeing me again. I won't even go there for a state inspection. You may be on to something there, mine always stalls in the city as well when there are frequent stop/go's. Mine actually acts like it's loading up at times. When I down shift sometimes and hit the gas before releasing the clutch it acts like it's choking/loading up (but there's no carb of course) and won't rev but about 2k rpm and no more. Doesn't always do it, just occasionally. I almost get the impression it's not burning the regular gas very well when fed certain amounts under those circumstances. IDK. My shop charges the same, 90/hr. That 26 was just for a "quick check". Probably a quick fifteen minute look-see which most likely will produce no answer to the problem. I wonder though about taking my bike to the dealership also, when I first bought the bike the guy at the service counter said I couldn't use synthetic oil, at all. My confidence in them was fairly shot after that remark. This is why I like listening to the blues. 8-) Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member applekoolaid Posted May 8, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted May 8, 2015 I was doing little throttle blips partially out of habit (from rev matching) and partly to hear the exhaust note (I like it) when at an intersection immediately before pulling away. All my stalling issues went away when I quit doing those little throttle blips from idle and just pulled away with steady throttle textbook style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Like others mentioned when you run it so g'sh darn lean cracking the throttle plate causes an inrush of air. On a carb, more fuel will get pulled up and atomized (if poorly) so it has less tendency to stall vis a vis FI which has to wait for the burn to happen and analyze the exhaust mixture before it sends revised injector pulse width. I agree, another 100 rpm and even just slightly more richer mixture (probably <10% percent) is all that's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceblue Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I've been having this stalling problem too. It always happens with the clutch pulled at or in the middle of an intersection after a complete stop. It worries me a bit because the drivers here in NYC are pretty aggressive and don't give you much time to pull off after a light turns green. It happened one while slowly riding around a truck that was blocking an intersection and that's when I realized how serious of a problem it could be. Is there a way to contact Yamaha directly or do we have to take the problem to the dealer? I have already seen on one of these forums a person decide on another bike beside the FZ-07/MT-07 because of all of the stalling complaints on an MT-07 forum. I would think that this could potentially be a serious safety problem if it isn't addressed sooner than later. Maybe the admins of this forum should make this topic a sticky??? 1 http://caferacerNYC.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Another 110 miles w/o a stall. The last 10 miles was in city traffic in 85F temps. I've almost (but not quite) completely forgotten about it. Goofy/ My last 160 miles netted 64 mpg. Just as goofy, but far easier to live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member phicurious86 Posted May 10, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just turned over 1k miles. Haven't had a stall since the first 150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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