bigtwin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 My ohlin has a 120NM spring. 115 is standard according to the papers shipped with the unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 that seems like a lot of spring for a 400 lb motorcycle with a 15 lb rider aboard.Guess you haven't looked at the spring on t he R3. 1000lb/inWhat's that translate to, 180Nm? I'm guessing there's a lot of linkage and not much shock length. Mine's actually not bad where I have it now - 16 clicks out on the rebound and about 12mm of preload (where 14 and 14 are recommended start points) The front is now noticeably busy with my hands taking as much of a beating as I care to think about. My bushing kit should be here soon, so I'll tackle the front in the next couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Settings front......2 compression ....2.5 rebound...and zero pre-load Then on rear 14mm preload....4 clicks out.rear spring 120....front spring not known (yet)Just had a close look at my Andreani springs. They have printed on one of the coils 7.8 I'm guessing that's the rate in N/mm. Think that's the right ballpark for me. Yours will likely be a bigger number, if you ever get back in there for a look. My bushings kit arrived yesterday - just need to clean up the shop and get motivated to wrench instead of ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I wonder if the new bushes will restrict the passage of oil compared the the more open bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I wonder if the new bushes will restrict the passage of oil compared the the more open bush?the fluid should be flowing thru the valves, not past the bushings via a big wide end gap that shouldn't be there in the 1st place. . . Won't even give that a 2nd thought if, like all the ones we've seen, mine also have that large end gap - that bushing will go. Maybe i'll send it back to Yamaha for their used parts wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 And this is what the "patton special" 20mm pistons look like in real life. I still think the Andreani kit needs my "high-flow Comp" piston which is basically a half moon but this incarnation should flow better than their stock in any event, and especially when it's flipped over in the correct orientation instead of backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Dang-it! The firewalls here at work block every one of your picts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I wonder if the new bushes will restrict the passage of oil compared the the more open bush?the fluid should be flowing thru the valves, not past the bushings via a big wide end gap that shouldn't be there in the 1st place. . . Won't even give that a 2nd thought if, like all the ones we've seen, mine also have that large end gap - that bushing will go. Maybe i'll send it back to Yamaha for their used parts wall. Yeah....sorry...writing without thinking it through. Patton's piston solution looks logical. I'll see how I get on this summer and perhaps pull it all out to upgrade and change the bushes at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Putting on the miles with the settings described my last few posts. Working out really well. Will have an 800+ mile (1100 kms) round trip to the UK next week. I will look into ordering the new full circumference bushes with the expectation to sort out in a few months time and possibly try slightly softer Andreani springs although they really are spot on for two up work... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Still haven't done mine. It rained here most of June and the 1st half of July. Of course, by the time all the stuff I needed arrived, the rain went away. When I've not been riding, i've been 15 ft up on a ladder scraping paint (I have an old mistress of a house.) . Can't have too much fun. It'll start raining again at some point - I'll get to it. Bigtwin, I don't do a whole heck of a lot of 2-up on my Futura anymore, but when I do, I don't even touch the front preload and just add 1/4 turn to the rebound - and i have loads of adjustment to make it stiffer. Back when I couldn't adjust the front at all on previous bikes and did tons of miles 2-up, it never seemed to matter to that bike either. As long as the shock can be adjusted to compensate for the weight, all seems well. If you go lighter on those springs, I'd not change it much for fear it will be too soft for you - even by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Yes Rick that is why I am inclined to leave it alone. I don't mind the compromise, as my wife enjoys the bike so much. I was also thinking back to all those bikes I've owned and never had adjustable suspension apart from 3 or 5 rear pre-load ring turns. I do not remember questioning the handling as there was not much to be done anyway.....the 1970s....hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 I blame the 'drugs' ^H^H^H^H leaded gas fumes for lowering inhibitions and mellowed out the pursuit of excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Have a buddy who had a go at racing well into our 40s. He put a 5 gallon can of high octane av gas (meant for his TZ125) under my nose one day and said - "take a whiff". Like, oh wow, soooo bad, yet, soooo good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 as for lead. huh, what lead? http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/rashapir/IMG_0585_zpsufeuolpe.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/rashapir/IMG_0589_zpsvftnupvm.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I blame the 'drugs' ^H^H^H^H leaded gas fumes for lowering inhibitions and mellowed out the pursuit of excellence.When I was drag racing in the 70s we used TetraEthyl Lead a lot.......we had no respect for how dangerous it is! Talking about suspension....we thought the height of understanding was to junk the rear shocks on almost anything we had bought and replace with Girlings...there was always an improvement...hahah Like my Norton Commando in 1975, after new Girlings I had to stop every few miles of spirited country lane riding to let the kidney pain subside! (Truly) Girlings did stop my friends Kawa Z1 from doing its hideous snake-wallow on long fast bends.....it was just as hideous to follow him and see it in acion too!! That's when the Norton would pass, I couldn't pass him on the straights though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The /6 and 7/ R bikes I rode for over 20 years were like Weebles. They wobbled, but never fell down. Iirc, the forks had 8" of travel. The OE fork brace was a thin piece of aluminum (though nicely polished) and the upper bridge was a stamped, 5mm piece of flat steel. Can you say fork flex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Oh yes! I remember it well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 OK, reviving the old thread. It was 91F here 2 days ago. It's only mid 50s today with rain and tomorrow won't be much better, so that Andreani kit wasn't doing me any good sitting in the box. I used that 10 cSt fluid in the compression side and 16 cSt in the rebound side. Considering that the OE forks just barely have enough rebound damping to keep the front from bouncing up and down just after a push, this has to be an improvement. Will get the forks back on the bike tomorrow - maybe the weather will let me get a quick spin in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 So, no ride report yet as the weather's still a bit crappy and I have early dinner plans later. But, initial impression is pretty good. i think the front is up just a tad higher than before. Not a complete surprise as the spring is a tad stiffer (at least by the numbers) than OE i'll know better when i have a sit with my riding boots instead of an old pair of kickers. I have the compression set at 3 turns out and the rebound at 2.5 turns out. Compressing the front feels a bit harder than the OE setup. Hard to tell at this point whether that's the spring or damping. 16cSt fluid is too high, imo, for that wee valve on the C side so I think my experiment will be worth it - for this set-up at least. But the rebound feels pretty good with a lot of room for adjustment where 1 turn out is way to slow and 4 turns (set both up to max at 4 turns as per directions) is borderline the way the OE damper was - it bounces right back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twotone Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I 5. Needle taper comparison between theirs and mine "] Hi just joined and tested a new MT07 Read this thread and other susp' threads as standard bike needs help Great Info from pattonme reall good free info The needle comparison above from page 5: if I'm on the right track they are in two different applications? Ie DFF, SFF? Would the single one need to be more gradual moderation as is in the pic for it's flow demand And the Showa style is more suited for working as one of a twin application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Their needle never backs up enough to get clear of the orifice; even at full 'open' it's still impinging. On rebound application this is probably fine and the fine degree of adjust is again, helpful. On compression, you need the needle to 'get out of the way' but whether the adjustment is coarse or fine isn't really material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twotone Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks Have you got these in a running bike? So under test ride the comp was hard to adjust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You can find a lot of happy people who have installed this kit. That doesn't mean it couldn't work better if the valves could flow more fluid. And if there is a complaint, it's that the high speed compression damping is too, well, high. This is why I used a lighter weight fluid in the compression side. Pattonme is saying that there's not enough adjustment in the compression valve so it's not really adjustable softer than firm - whether that results in too much compression - I'll get back to ya on that. I still haven't ridden the bike yet, but just by bump feel, there is a noticeable difference in rebound speed from full closed (too much) to full open (not as whimpy as OE, but dang close) on the R adjustment. The compression side, as described above, not as big a range. Mr. Pattonme has some "out of the box" fixes for this weak design, which I understand sorta, but won't fully "see" until the pieces are in my hands. But even after all the work of installation, I'm fully expecting to be back inside that compression cartridge sometime over the winter. It's likely his custom fix using Showa bits meant for other bikes will work better - and it's cheaper. The Matris system is an easier install than the Andreani, though it sounds like that's got issues on the compression side, as well as well as maybe even the spring rate supplied.All this is fixable and will be way better than the OE bouncing ball. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twotone Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks for the replies It would be informative to get a real perspective on the andreanis performance before any mods As they are not cheap to our week dollar (AU) And the bikes are 11.3k AU ride away And the complete Anreani solution adds another 1.7k Might have to look at used carts and Piston kits + GSXR shock For some reason I like the Matris 4 valve architecture Perhaps mr pattonme could supply valves and caps for a build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 @twotone did I hear you volunteer to be the first over-seas (well first anywhere really) guinea pig for a kit install? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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