bigtwin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Job done....road tested.... excellent result. Before setting off I bounced the front end and although the instructions say to adjust needles to four turns in as a starting point, there was no fork action at all.....so I kept bouncing and turning out the adjusters until a normal for action occurred. This ended up at one full turn in on both legs. Went to my test road with three speed humps and as soon as I left the garage it was clear that the improvement over stock was huge. The humps were dealt with much more easily than the standard forks but slightly harsh (first test set up though), but on the normal road surfaces with occasional normal undulations and pits it was sublimely controlled. It actually showed up the Ohlin rear as being over damped on rebound so I backed it off three clicks for the next test. (Was 14 out..... now 17 out)Remember I have springs ordered for 100kg rider inc gear.(120Nm) I hope this helps if others are doing this conversion. Oh yes....Putting the caps on and tightening the rod bolt was easy by hand and my wife kindly tightened the nut whilst I compressed the spring spacer-tube enough to expose the nut. http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150614_123454_zpss0hh8eno.jpg http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150614_123505_zpseh9ipmzc.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Sweet. Now i'm really stoked to get mine. It's raining today. Too bad it's not here right now. I'm a bit confused by your "1 turn in" adjustment on the damping. Usually, the needles would be closed when those adjusters are screwed in clockwise. This would result in the highest level of damping. 1 turn out from fully closed i s probably ballpark for most of these set-ups. I ride with my Aprilia's rebound damping set at 1.25 turns out from closed. But that you've been able to dial out the harshness with ease is huge. Hopefully, springs for my 62kg will work as well. With that gold part being much shorter in your kit made your life a lot easier. Imagine compressing that spring another 75-100 mm to expose the nut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Fully out is fully open. (least damping resistance) In other words as far as the adjuster will go anti-clockwise........Start at fully out..... then turn four full (360 degree) turns clockwise from the fully out position. That is the setting given in the instructions. For me 4 turns in made the forks totally solid to try to compress. I found I only needed one turn in from fully out not 4. I took my wife out just now and her observation was that it is like 'Night and day' comparing last week on standard suspension...no more pogo stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 More pictures if anyone needs some reference imageshttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150611_162141_zpsb2kve18p.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150611_203108_zpsj7tywvy9.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150614_102402_zpshicnygow.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150614_102338_zpslazg1uek.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150613_174439_zps8voss3es.jpg The spare partshttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150614_123656_zpsdx42nahf.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Starting from full out might be what the directions call for, but it's really not a very good reference point to measure from. Every time you take this set-up apart to change fluid, that reference will change just a hair. Fully closed will never change. I would carefully note how many turns it takes to turn the adjusters in until they lightly seat and use that as your reference and then back them out to where you have them. If it's anything like my Showa's forks, 1/4 turn will be felt. Well, unfortunately, you should also have a set of lower bushings in that used parts bin. That's one of the bushings that will wear out prematurely due to it's too large end gap. NIce job on carving that lip away! You might also have been better off with a slightly lower spring rate on that shock. Have you checked sag measurements? Are you planning on riding 2-up a lot? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Post by rick on 41 minutes ago Starting from full out might be what the directions call for, but it's really not a very good reference point to measure from. Every time you take this set-up apart to change fluid, that reference will change just a hair. Fully closed will never change. I would carefully note how many turns it takes to turn the adjusters in until they lightly seat and use that as your reference and then back them out to where you have them. If it's anything like my Showa's forks, 1/4 turn will be felt.You could well be right....I followed what was a critical/important starred instruction in the leaflet Well, unfortunately, you should also have a set of lower bushings in that used parts bin. That's one of the bushings that will wear out prematurely due to it's too large end gap. How would I know that? Nothing in the instructions or in posts here as a warning.... NIce job on carving that lip away!Thanks.... You might also have been better off with a slightly lower spring rate on that shock. Have you checked sag measurements? Are you planning on riding 2-up a lot?The spring rate is my 95kg weight plus clothes/boots....I was asked this when I ordered....I thought I should give an accurate weight. Regarding bush wear......in reality I'm not sure I need worry......I share my yearly mileage across four bikes....Here in Netherlands I ride all year round.....I have been riding non-stop for 47years I have never had a bike long enough to wear out bushes!! But when I owned a Vincent 1000 the other owners always banged on about bush wear in traditional forks being the weakness....which never happened with Girdraulics.....hahah Read more: http://fz07.org/thread/2415/andreani-advanced-cartridge-kit?page=11&scrollTo=43024#ixzz3d3QzquxW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The lower bushing issue started here. http://fz07.org/thread/2223/wrong-bushings-installed-factory-ensues The end gap should be closer to 1 mm than the 4 or 5 in your pict. You should send a PM to Unknown as he's been in contact with Yamaha on this. I think that puts the number at 6 or 7 that we've seen with the wrong bushing installed by Kayaba. With any luck, Yamaha will recall these. Even if you choose to live with it, can't hurt to bump the numbers up. I also have never replaced a fork bushing. But then, I owned BMW twins for decades that had no bushings at all in the legs. Did you have any trouble removing the lower bolt that goes into the damper rod? I'm now itching a bit to get at this little project. You've got 2 years of riding experience over me. Just how much fun would we have had if there were bikes like this when we were 18- 25 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 > For me 4 turns in made the forks totally solid to try to compress. Guys, remember the settings on C vs R are going to be very different!! On C if you're 3 turns out (to use the proper lingo) that's perfectly reasonable. Damn it, clearly there are 2 different kits. BigTwin's has 130mm between spacer and nut whereas the one I was sent is short by 10mm. So much for SKU management... > Did you have any trouble removing the lower bolt that goes into the damper rod? Oh my don't get me started with that on @howlinhoss forks. It took well over a minute of industrial high-CFM air-gun to get one of his bolts out. Worst one I've ever done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Was just curious how tight his bolt was as he made absolutely no mention of it. Guess i'll be giving my 40 year old compressor and Ingersol Rand 2 piston banger a workout. I bought that little tapered tool when that conversation went 'round, so that'll help I looked at that ruler and saw 120mm to his oring w/o thinking you measured 120 to the nut on yours. Sheesh! So yeah, there's more to it than just a longer gold part paired with a shorter rod. What's up with that? Sure hope it's not an MT vs FZ thing with the EU getting the right one and us not. Maybe time to drop David a call/email 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 @rick, the taper tool (the one I got) is made of aluminum and 100% worthless. The corners rounded right off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 huh? The only difference between the one you posted up and the one I found was that your link was a couple bucks cheaper. I went - as anyone who knows would predict - with cheaper, lol. Just put a magnet to mine and it's very much steel, just like the description here, black and hard (yeah, yeah, there's a bad joke in there somewhere) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUU0Y8/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687522&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004QNYDLE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HDJW9YAJBAEK4F4ABD8 How did you wind up with aluminum? man, yer having a bad run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I carved a piece of wood for the first leg which worked with a normal allen key and a extension tube......the second did not want to work that way so I tapered the end of a long masonry chisel and that worked fine. The factory tool looked to complicated to bother making for a one off job. My wood method has worked on many bikes over the years!! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hi Rick....As a Newbie here I had not read all associated threads so I had no idea about the 'known' bush gap. Lets hope the gaps are at 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock they won't do much harm there... "You've got 2 years of riding experience over me. Just how much fun would we have had if there were bikes like this when we were 18- 25 ???" Yes got my licence April 2nd 1968....crazy....but don't think that I ride as a sedate old man....hahah... I like to come up behind the young guys....ride like I mean it and surprise the hell out of them when I remove my helmet....Last bike sold was K1300R (sold because it was too weighty to move around in the workshop....fast though and perfect two up, great suspension) Before that a mechanically personalised Ducati 999S which was a cool weapon, though not well suited to Dutch riding conditions... I tested the MT-07 three weeks ago.... came back grinning like an idiot, because it made me ride like a hooligan!! and it had been a long time since a bike made me do that.....So two days later I found this one and after taking a longer ride I realised the suspension was lacking (in my view). Hence the swiftly organised upgrades. I had to move the clocks on day one as I got fed up not having them in my peripheral vision. That was easy and works very well indeed. As well as riding around I also ride from here to the UK 6 times a year so this bike has to perform two jobs....hooligan and semi-touring...hence the clock move and the navigation bracket...comfort seat for the UK trips...and my own mounting system for saddle bags (using some original Buell bags). Few more things to do to complete the dual purpose conversion...lower bars and footrests to be moved back an inch or two...I have also found a new Yamaha L/H switch unit with the horn button in the normal place ( TZR125) which will replace the standard one as three times I have pressed the indicators when I needed the horn...As I have other bikes to ride and over any given week I can jump from one to another.... so it is easier for me to have the horn in a consistent position and intuitively placed in panic situations. http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150602_171120_zpsbczlhsxz.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150531_172212_zpshtt7zamp.jpg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Re. Number of turns on rebound and compression screws...... Four turns in to fully closed.....or four turns out to fully open....that is the range. So my setting right now (on both Rebound and Compression) is 3 turns out from fully closed...or if you prefer, one turn in from fully open. Update... I just went for a proper set up ride solo...... Ended with Rebound adjuster fully out (4 full turns out) and Compression adjuster 3.5 turns out. This removed harshness and made for pleasant progress over bumps, undulations, and general road imperfections...It also gave a secure feeling leaning over for bends ans roundabouts. P.S. Rear Ohlin at 17 clicks out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 No pic, but I measured the ID of the "barrel" in the bottom of the FZ fork. 27.25mm vs the cartridge tube which is 25.12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Re. Number of turns on rebound and compression screws...... Four turns in to fully closed.....or four turns out to fully open....that is the range. So my setting right now (on both Rebound and Compression) is 3 turns out from fully closed...or if you prefer, one turn in from fully open. Update... I just went for a proper set up ride solo...... Ended with Rebound adjuster fully out (4 full turns out) and Compression adjuster 3.5 turns out. This removed harshness and made for pleasant progress over bumps, undulations, and general road imperfections...It also gave a secure feeling leaning over for bends ans roundabouts. P.S. Rear Ohlin at 17 clicks out That sounds good. But as yer pretty much out of adjustment, you might consider a lighter fluid for both sides when that time comes. The little FZ ticks a bunch of boxes. And I'm with you when it comes to weight at this stage of my riding (started in 1970). My Aprilia Futura now feels really heavy in comparison. I can't imagine going back to the bike that preceded it - a '96 K1100RS. What a big (unreliable) land yacht that thing was. It was almost always broken. The Aprilia has been very reliable for 13 years. I'm done with BMWs. As for those bushings, it's not where the gap is in relation to the top bushing. it's the end gap of the one bushing itself. It's pretty clear in your pict that you also have an incorrect bushing. The end gap should only be about 1mm. You've got so few miles that you have no wear yet. But we've (well, pattonme does the actual seeing) by 1K miles you will. The thin teflon lining that separates the bronze bush from the aluminum in the slider will be worn away. Eventually, the slider will wear. I also just discovered how crappy my monitor at home is (work monitor is a 27" Mac theater monitor!). What I saw as a 24cm in your pict of that scale at home is now clearly 25. Sheesh. There are clearly 2, slightly different cartridge kits being delivered. Have a really bad feeling that the US distributor is not using the correct part number. Part number - is there one on your box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Rick this is the label info Andreani Group Yamaha MT-07 Cod 105/Y11 Oil Level 120mm Oil type Ohlins 01330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Re. Bushes Perhaps if there is a recall (which I doubt somehow) I will try to blag a couple so I can do the job myself. It is possible that with the modifications we have done Yamaha will not be happy to honour our warranty....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 > But as yer pretty much out of adjustment This is more an artifact of having such a slight taper on the needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Needle profile is clearly the reason....But although close to being a problem, I personally am not out of adjustment as it is spot on right now and if my wife rides with me I have plenty to use up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 > But as yer pretty much out of adjustment This is more an artifact of having such a slight taper on the needle. Would lower vis fluid put that needle more back toward the middle of the taper to allow some more adjustment - or is that not gonna help? were those cat numbers the same as what FBI sent to you? Sure hope the FZ vs MT hasn't translated to a different part number. The kit number on Andreani's (and Omnia) site is ADYA012 Yamaha MT-07 Cod 105/Y11 Oil Level 120mm Oil type Ohlins 01330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 well, 4 turns is I believe 4mm worth of linear distance. (can confirm tonight). If you look at the needle it's an easy 6mm long so at 4 turns out there is still a lot of needle impinging on the orifice. Yes, lighter weight will allow you to turn it in and get the same slow-bleed rates but it will also make a change to the behavior of the shim stack. I wouldn't chase needle position. Though if you end up having to fully seat the needle on rebound or open it wide up on compression, that says to me, the shim stack needs changing. But it would be worth the experiment to re-set the needle to have 6 or so 7 turns of range (re-install fork cap with it turned in by that amount) so you can test zero impingement to full. Though curiously @bigtwin has the R backed all the way out which would imply the valving is too stiff for the oil. But as I showed previously, the flow-rate of the entire cartridge is compromised by those spacers and I expect that's the actual limit he's trying to dial out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I make a friction tool from a spare 1/2" drive socket. Looked up the Yamaha holding tool in the manual and it actually gives you the dimension for the tool diameter ( less than 21.2mm IF I remember correctly...maybe...). Got the socket and "squared" it off on the bench grinder with a slight taper so it was the diameter in the diagram of Yamahas. Put several long 1/2' extentions on the socket and a T bar and pushed while I used a allen key shaft in the cordless hammer drill on the bottom bolt. After I had been swearing at it for half an hour before I made the tool, with the tool it came straight off. I agree one of the most difficult fork lower bolts I have ever removed. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You used a hammer drill or was it an impact driver? They be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ok, the difference in square area of the Andreani (25.12 = 92.4) vs Showa (24 = 130. cartridge inside the unmodified upper tube's bottom metal is 38mm^2. I do wonder if that pushes the Andreani over the inflection point since the C leg is expected to push 3cc thru 54mm^2 (internal to cartridge) for 10mm worth of stroke, and the displacement intended to flow between the ~1mm gap between tubes is 8.7cc per same unit of time. Given these numbers and the many forks I've done successfully with Showa cartridges (the SV Gen1 is the same 27.25mm diameter as FZ07) I have to conclude that the guts have to come out or you put it in a big, honkin' lathe and take a bite out of the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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