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Almost backed out onto my SV650 riding neighbor yesterday...


duenan

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So my neighbor (well, not really, he lives about 10-15 houses away), a kid (in his 20s) who I'm assuming doesn't have his license because for the past year, all he does is circle around the housing continuously, he rides a SV650 with aftermarket pipes.  If anyone has heard these things, they are even louder than the FZ07 with an aftermarket pipe.  I would almost say, or maybe just downright say, it sounds better than the FZ07.  But whether or not one finds the sound better is an opinion, I will say as fact that it is much louder than the FZ07 aftermarket pipes.
 
I still did not hear him as I was backing out of my driveway.  I just had the windows up along with air conditioning.  Nothing more.  And I almost ****ed him up.  I slammed on the breaks and he swerved.
 
Reason I didn't see him is my next door neighbor had a minivan parked in his driveway, obscuring my vision as I back out.  I can't see the street until my ass is halfway out onto the street.
 
So yeah, loud pipes and all, I still didn't hear him coming with my windows up and aircon on.  Just a warning to you all who keep proclaiming loud pipes saves lives.  Maybe when you're revving at 6+k you'll be heard.  But cruising speed, you are all still silent and invisible.  Just be weary of driveways even with your m4s.
 

Engaging with people that have personality disorders on a message board is like arguing with a rock.

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Guest Ralph

You only really hear them once they are passed,
only thing I have found that does make a difference
at least here in the UK is yellow fluorescent jackets
but that's uncool so no one uses them, if your going to
rely on loud noise for safety then you might as well start
practicing now living on hospital food fed through a straw.
 
 

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I think mostly the pipes help when you are next to someone so they don't merge on top of you (hopefully). And a loud horn seems to be more appropriate regarding sound. But yeah, there's no substitute for being aware of your surroundings.
 

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phicurious86

Where's the picture of the dead horse?
 
Is anyone seriously arguing that as long as you have loud pipes you don't have to be as careful driving a motorcycle? I don't think so.

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Where's the picture of the dead horse?  
Is anyone seriously arguing that as long as you have loud pipes you don't have to be as careful driving a motorcycle? I don't think so.
Uh oh, I touched on someone's touchy subject there! :o 

Engaging with people that have personality disorders on a message board is like arguing with a rock.

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phicurious86
Where's the picture of the dead horse?  
Is anyone seriously arguing that as long as you have loud pipes you don't have to be as careful driving a motorcycle? I don't think so.
Uh oh, I touched on someone's touchy subject there! :o
I'm just tired of both sides of this debate citing anecdotal evidence as having refuted a straw man.
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A good habit I've adopted is to roll the windows down or at least cracked a few inches. Have the radio off and the fan fairly low so it's not loud.
 
Another thing I like to do is to back into my driveway or parking spot wherever practical.

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twowheeladdict

How slow were on backing out?
 
How close was he riding to the curb?
 
Yes, loud pipes just annoy non riders who scream for more regulations.

2015 FZ-07

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Where's the picture of the dead horse?  
Is anyone seriously arguing that as long as you have loud pipes you don't have to be as careful driving a motorcycle? I don't think so.
Uh oh, I touched on someone's touchy subject there! :o
Dude, what did you expect? You said yourself you might hear someone's exhaust if they're up around 6k rpm so why then is it so hard to believe that if you're passing next to someone (hard on the gas at 6k rpm, not cruising) your loud pipe might've made them aware of your presence and possibly prevented them from changing lanes and smashing into you? Do you honestly believe that in the history of motor vehicles a loud pipe has never caught anyone's attention? Stay with us, don't leave reality.

Beemer

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twowheeladdict
Uh oh, I touched on someone's touchy subject there! :o
Dude, what did you expect? You said yourself you might hear someone's exhaust if they're up around 6k rpm so why then is it so hard to believe that if you're passing next to someone (hard on the gas at 6k rpm, not cruising) your loud pipe might've made them aware of your presence and possibly prevented them from changing lanes and smashing into you? Do you honestly believe that in the history of motor vehicles a loud pipe has never caught anyone's attention? Stay with us, don't leave reality.
An Air Horn is going to be more effective in that situation. When they think they are merging into a semi truck, they WILL move over.  If it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way. 

2015 FZ-07

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Dude, what did you expect? You said yourself you might hear someone's exhaust if they're up around 6k rpm so why then is it so hard to believe that if you're passing next to someone (hard on the gas at 6k rpm, not cruising) your loud pipe might've made them aware of your presence and possibly prevented them from changing lanes and smashing into you? Do you honestly believe that in the history of motor vehicles a loud pipe has never caught anyone's attention? Stay with us, don't leave reality.
An Air Horn is going to be more effective in that situation. When they think they are merging into a semi truck, they WILL move over.  If it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way.
lol! Has the world gone completely whacky?! You seriously don't mean that, right?

Beemer

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I'm hesitant to even enter this thread, but at least exhaust noise is passive, you don't have to press a button for it.
 
The half a dozen times I've had someone attempt to change lanes into me, or narrowly cut me off - I had nowhere near the reaction time required to hit the horn. Nevermind the break in concentration while simultaneously deciding wether to slow down, shoot out, where to swerve, how hard to swerve, what am I potentially swerving into, so on and so forth.
 
Having a shorty delkevic, which I do consider a little loud (though not nearly as loud as drag pipes on harleys, or most liter bikes I come across). I'm still suprised I often encounter trucks that are just as loud (including exhaust and off road tire chatter), sometimes louder. As well as modified mustangs, camaros, subarus, mazdas, civics and the like which are also typically loud enough to announce their presence.
 
At the end of the day, support freedom of choice and run whatever sounds good to you. Just don't hinge anything on it, apart from some good times.

Everything went braap.

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twowheeladdict
An Air Horn is going to be more effective in that situation. When they think they are merging into a semi truck, they WILL move over.  If it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way.
lol! Has the world gone completely whacky?! You seriously don't mean that, right?
Yes, the world has gone completely whacky. There are people out there that are so pissed off at loud bikes that they will merge on purpose.  

2015 FZ-07

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twowheeladdict
I'm hesitant to even enter this thread, but at least exhaust noise is passive, you don't have to press a button for it.  
The half a dozen times I've had someone attempt to change lanes into me, or narrowly cut me off - I had nowhere near the reaction time required to hit the horn. Nevermind the break in concentration while simultaneously deciding wether to slow down, shoot out, where to swerve, how hard to swerve, what am I potentially swerving into, so on and so forth.
 

Your concentration should be on the car you are passing.  That way you are not taken by surprise and already have your reaction planned.  If I am riding multiple lanes in the same direction I am far enough back from the vehicle in front of me to be safe, and my periphery is focused on the vehicle I am passing.  If their tire touches the line, the horn is signaled, and the position is changed depending on where I am in proximity to them. 
I am always asking myself "why is that vehicle doing what it is doing?"  It helps prepare me for what is happening.  If the vehicles in the other lane are starting to brake light, I know they are looking to come into my lane.  If the car near me is narrowing the gap between him and the vehicle in front of him, I know he might come over. 
There is no room for not concentrating on everything around you, instead of just concentrating on what is in front of you.  You have to have the situational awareness of a fighter pilot when riding.
 

2015 FZ-07

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lol! Has the world gone completely whacky?! You seriously don't mean that, right?
Yes, the world has gone completely whacky. There are people out there that are so pissed off at loud bikes that they will merge on purpose.
Seriously, what I'm referring to is this, "An Air Horn is going to be more effective in that situation. When they think they are merging into a semi truck, they WILL move over. If it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way." That makes no sense to me because you first say an air horn is going to be more effective in that situation but then you contradict yourself by saying if it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way.
That implies they won't give a sh*t about your horn, your pipe or anything else because their vehicle is bigger than yours and you will be afraid of them. See what I'm saying now?
 
I do agree with your thoughts on being focused on the car you are passing as much as you can without ignoring everything else that's going on around you. That's sound advice. 
 
A word to anyone that proclaims loud pipes can't save a life. Have you asked everyone you've met if the sound of a vehicle beside them has ever caught their attention and stopped them just as they started to merge? No you haven't and I can say with 100% certainty if it's happened to me it's happened to thousands of others. That would mean thousands of lives have probably been saved by loud pipes.

Beemer

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I'm hesitant to even enter this thread, but at least exhaust noise is passive, you don't have to press a button for it.  
The half a dozen times I've had someone attempt to change lanes into me, or narrowly cut me off - I had nowhere near the reaction time required to hit the horn. Nevermind the break in concentration while simultaneously deciding wether to slow down, shoot out, where to swerve, how hard to swerve, what am I potentially swerving into, so on and so forth.
 

Your concentration should be on the car you are passing.  That way you are not taken by surprise and already have your reaction planned.  If I am riding multiple lanes in the same direction I am far enough back from the vehicle in front of me to be safe, and my periphery is focused on the vehicle I am passing.  If their tire touches the line, the horn is signaled, and the position is changed depending on where I am in proximity to them. 
I am always asking myself "why is that vehicle doing what it is doing?"  It helps prepare me for what is happening.  If the vehicles in the other lane are starting to brake light, I know they are looking to come into my lane.  If the car near me is narrowing the gap between him and the vehicle in front of him, I know he might come over. 
There is no room for not concentrating on everything around you, instead of just concentrating on what is in front of you.  You have to have the situational awareness of a fighter pilot when riding.

 
 
Pretty much what allows me to commute full time and stay alive.

Everything went braap.

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twowheeladdict
Yes, the world has gone completely whacky. There are people out there that are so pissed off at loud bikes that they will merge on purpose.
Seriously, what I'm referring to is this, "An Air Horn is going to be more effective in that situation. When they think they are merging into a semi truck, they WILL move over. If it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way." That makes no sense to me because you first say an air horn is going to be more effective in that situation but then you contradict yourself by saying if it is just a little bike and they want over, they will come over knowing that you will get out of the way.
That implies they won't give a sh*t about your horn, your pipe or anything else because their vehicle is bigger than yours and you will be afraid of them. See what I'm saying now?
 
I do agree with your thoughts on being focused on the car you are passing as much as you can without ignoring everything else that's going on around you. That's sound advice. 
 
A word to anyone that proclaims loud pipes can't save a life. Have you asked everyone you've met if the sound of a vehicle beside them has ever caught their attention and stopped them just as they started to merge? No you haven't and I can say with 100% certainty if it's happened to me it's happened to thousands of others. That would mean thousands of lives have probably been saved by loud pipes.
What I am saying is that they will react to the horn if they don't see you.  They may react to the horn even if they see you because they will associate it with a big truck instead of a bike.  They will think a big truck is in their blind spot.  The only place I have ever seen where loud pipes would be effective is lane splitting in California.  If you wreck with a car going the same direction, you aren't paying attention or the guy just whipped over with no regard for their own safety.  You should have enough time to swerve and speed up or brake if you are travelling the same direction unless you are moving a lot faster than the lane next to you which is a dangerous maneuver.
Most Car / Motorcycle wreck occur when the car turns left in front of the bike, or pull out from a side street.  In those cases lights are going to be your best offense.  They aren't going to hear you in their closed up car with tunes playing.
 

2015 FZ-07

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twowheeladdict 
 
This is a typical statement by most that seem to think a loud pipe can't save a life. "So yeah, loud pipes and all, I still didn't hear him coming with my windows up and aircon on. Just a warning to you all who keep proclaiming loud pipes saves lives.
"
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't claim that loud pipes are always heard, that would be an ignorant statement but no more ignorant than saying that all people drive with their windows all the way up 100% of the time. 
 
I see people driving with their windows down quite often where I live. A lot appear to be smoker's letting smoke out and I also pass bikers that I know for sure can hear my pipe when I'm coming up beside them, especially the ones that don't wear helmets. These are the undeniable facts that should tell people that a pipe CAN be heard and therefore save a life. I have nothing more to say on this. Yall have a great day and ride safe.
 
 
 
 

Beemer

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pineappleunderthesea

When I'm driving, if the bike is behind me I typically don't hear it until it has almost caught up to me. If the bike is in front of me, I tend to hear the pipes better from a much longer distance, so I know there's a bike (or Honda Civic with fart can) up front somewhere, but only when they get on the throttle.
 
So I split the difference: with the Akra carbon, I left the baffle in so I don't annoy neighbors all that much, but still has enough grunt to let drivers know there's a bike somewhere on the freeway. I don't think for a second that loud pipes would truly save me (I've had near misses from people merging in my lane and I'm practically right next to them), but it can't hurt.

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twowheeladdict

My point is that if you justify having the loud pipe based on the supposition that it might help you stay safer, do you also where Hi-Vis gear? Add more lights to your bike? Wear ATGATT?
 
Or are you just trying to justify making noise by saying it will help keep you safe?
 
I appreciate folks who just say they like the way it sounds and leave it at that. We always make the guy with the loud bike ride in the back. Then we don't have to hear him.
 
Oh, and Beemer, it is a rare occurrence to see drivers with the windows down where I live. The ones who might have them down have loud exhaust themselves or are in beaters.
 
 

2015 FZ-07

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I was wrong, this is a hot topic and just too interesting so I'm not done with this subject.
Let's stay on track though and try to remember that the question is, can loud pipes save lives? There are no statistics for this subject so all we have are opinions and testimonies. Let's take a look at this statement from pineappleunderthesea.
"(I've had near misses from people merging in my lane and I'm practically right next to them), but it can't hurt."
 
Near misses. That could mean they saw him and went back into their lane or maybe they heard him. If he didn't ask the people afterward what made them go back into their lane no one can say what it was that got their attention but the bigger question is, if they hadn't merged back and they did hit our comrade, would he still be alive? (thank god he is) Here's some brain candy that might help persuade.
 
Since the first car came off the assembly line in 1913 one could only imagine how many people have been involved in a side swipe and the numbers for near misses has to be a lot higher so in 103 years of people having near misses (the number must be in the hundreds of thousands if not more) are we to believe that there's not one case where a person heard another's loud exhaust which saved that other persons life because they didn't get ran into oncoming traffic or a culvert, light pole, house, etc, etc. and didn't get killed? I wouldn't think that the law of averages would support that notion. I believe the law of averages would say that at least one persons life was saved by his or her loud exhaust pipe. After reading this I don't believe any experts study or statistics are needed to draw a conclusion on this matter.
 
http://www.thelawofaverages.co/the-theory
 

Beemer

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My point is that if you justify having the loud pipe based on the supposition that it might help you stay safer, do you also where Hi-Vis gear? Add more lights to your bike? Wear ATGATT?  
Or are you just trying to justify making noise by saying it will help keep you safe?
 
I appreciate folks who just say they like the way it sounds and leave it at that. We always make the guy with the loud bike ride in the back. Then we don't have to hear him.
 
Oh, and Beemer, it is a rare occurrence to see drivers with the windows down where I live. The ones who might have them down have loud exhaust themselves or are in beaters.
 

Really? People with newer cars and quiet exhausts don't put their windows down at all when it's cooler outside, when they don't need AC? Not even a little to get some fresh air??? Only people with junkers like fresh air? You have to admit, that's a big pill to swallow and besides, have you seen everyone, every day, that drives around there? That argument doesn't work my friend.

Beemer

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bmwpowere36m3

A better statement is, "may save your life"…. However with that said, you need to look at statistically what are the most common accidents. IIRC, they are a vehicle turning left in front of you and vehicles who cut you off from a side street/driveway/etc.
 
For those type of accidents the chances of a driver hearing you are slim. There was an interesting video, English I believe, that talks specifically about these types of accidents (the smidse or something like that). Two things going against motorcyclists: they are a small profile and do not appear to get larger till they are too close. Both those pose a difficultly for average drivers because they might do a quick look… but instinctively are looking for cars, trucks, etc… (larger vehicles) , which appear to get larger (judging distance) much sooner.
 
Anyway… that's my rant. You want to be noticed… wear Hi-Viz clothing, bright and/or additional lighting, headlight modulator, louder horn and loud pipe (I'd save the pipe for last if your justification is being heard and thus seen). However the most important safety device is your brain, riding defensively, assuming everyone is out to get you and develop/learn/practice emergency techniques (hard braking, swerving and always have an escape route planned). Easier said than done…

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A better statement is, "may save your life"…. However with that said, you need to look at statistically what are the most common accidents. IIRC, they are a vehicle turning left in front of you and vehicles who cut you off from a side street/driveway/etc. 
For those type of accidents the chances of a driver hearing you are slim. There was an interesting video, English I believe, that talks specifically about these types of accidents (the smidse or something like that). Two things going against motorcyclists: they are a small profile and do not appear to get larger till they are too close. Both those pose a difficultly for average drivers because they might do a quick look… but instinctively are looking for cars, trucks, etc… (larger vehicles) , which appear to get larger (judging distance) much sooner.
 
Anyway… that's my rant. You want to be noticed… wear Hi-Viz clothing, bright and/or additional lighting, headlight modulator, louder horn and loud pipe (I'd save the pipe for last if your justification is being heard and thus seen). However the most important safety device is your brain, riding defensively, assuming everyone is out to get you and develop/learn/practice emergency techniques (hard braking, swerving and always have an escape route planned). Easier said than done…
http://fz07.org/thread/2316/great-advice-smidsy?page=1&scrollTo=32307
 
 
 
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