Fear of rear wheel sliding out in a corner

[rogueone]

Hello everyone

 

I have this fear of my rear wheel slipping uncontrollably. In a way that's too fast for me to react.

When I corner, I have so much weight on the side the bike is leaned on. I think to myself there is not enough weight on the tire, the cornering momentum is going to push it from under me.

(Imagine someone slipping on oil or gravel that's what I imagine would happen on a nice road due to the momentum/pressure on the contact surface being at an angle).

 

This is all after I lowsided on a corner last summer. My pegs hit then the bike lowsided way too fast (safety guards at the bottom of the pegs were off). Someone told me I was going too slow for the corner.

 

I also have no feeling on the rear tire, I know when it slips but not the feedback of the surface. Is my suspension too lose or too tight?

[r1limited]

 

 

To tell you if your suspension is off would not do you any service without more information such as

 

Is the bike Stock Meaning stock suspension and has it been adjusted?

How much do you weigh?

How much tire pressure is in the rear and front?

Tire brand and miles?

How long have you been riding?

Have you ever ridden in the dirt?

 

If your thinking to much your not focusing on riding, your fear will be more of a deterrent when trying to focus on the bike and how it feels.  Things will get exasperated in your head and reaction if you are looking for and waiting for something to happen.  I have advised those with this kind of focus to just get off for a stint, focus on other things for a bit.  If you can find a dirt bike school nearby do yourself a favor and take it.  Better get a dirt bike and ride in mud sleet, snow, rain for 2 years and you wil never fear your ass hanging out again.

 

One Last thing, To go faster, Go Slower first

 

[Cruizin]

42 minutes ago, rogueone said:

Hello everyone

 

I have this fear of my rear wheel slipping uncontrollably. In a way that's too fast for me to react.

When I corner, I have so much weight on the side the bike is leaned on. I think to myself there is not enough weight on the tire, the cornering momentum is going to push it from under me.

(Imagine someone slipping on oil or gravel that's what I imagine would happen on a nice road due to the momentum/pressure on the contact surface being at an angle).

 

This is all after I lowsided on a corner last summer. My pegs hit then the bike lowsided way too fast (safety guards at the bottom of the pegs were off). Someone told me I was going too slow for the corner.

 

I also have no feeling on the rear tire, I know when it slips but not the feedback of the surface. Is my suspension too lose or too tight?

Thanks for sharing, we got you! Fear of rear wheel sliding out is normal, especially after a lowside. 

 

This may not be the advice that you want, but I feel that it is the advice that you need to hear right now. 

 

1.Have you taken a rider class yet?  If not, I suggest the medium to advanced rider course. It is usually either a full day or even two day of combo of classroom and hand on maneuvers class with lots of time going between the cones under supervision and good feedback from instructors on how to corner properly, including body position, speed, reaction and even head/eye position. Often, the problem can be fixed by simply looking farther into the corner and focusing on the exit. I dunno, I haven't seen you ride yet. But a good hands on advanced rider class is my best advice for you for starters. I take the advanced class every 3 years or so just to ensure that my skills are fresh and habits are still on par. And I have been riding street since 1980. 

 

2.Go to decent suspension shop in your area. Tell them you need to have your "SAG" checked and adjusted. It is paramount to have your proper "SAG" settings set up for your size and weight". The shop will have you sit on he bike and measure many key areas. Then, they will tell you if they can simply adjust your suspension, or if they have to change the springs/valving in order to get those correct settings set. This is the most important bike upgrade to do on a bike. It will make you more confident and much faster in the corners. Until you have the suspension set up correctly for your weight/size, you will be fighting your bike in the corners. Having this done will make it feel like you are on a entire different motorcycle that was built just for you. 

The initial visit to the suspension shop to have your bike SAG measured for you is relatively cheap or even free. Then, they can give you an estimate if you need to have your springs/valving changed out. Or, if you weigh around 150-170 lbs, they probably can set the sag for you right there for you. Trust me, this is such an awesome upgrade.  When I had my SAG set on my FZ-09, my favorite curvy road went from a personal best of 1 hour 30 minutes to one hour 15 minutes from point a to point b. Not only did I shave 15 minutes on that challenging road, when I got to the end my arms and body wasn't as sore as usual. I felt like I was riding a race bike set up for moto gp or something. All from having my suspension set up for me. and not just the springs and valving, but the actual SAG set up just perfect for me. 

 

Thats my two pieces of advice for you right now. Go do them and thank me afterwards. Dont spend a dime on suspension until yu know what SAG settings you need, and have this measured by a good suspension shop. You can have @pattonme do your forks after you learn what settings you need to save a few bucks, if needed. He could probably even talk to your local suspension shop over the phone. 

[Beemer]

First of all, are you simply leaning too much in corners? You said your peg hit and then you quickly washed out. The pressure on your peg might've lifted the bike slightly and stole some of your traction and caused you to go down. Try not leaning so much in corners if you aren't going fast.

[gregjet]

Beemer has a point.

Modern bikes handle better if you move your body to the inside of the corner on the seat and put your head over the inside of the corner hand. The bike then does not have to lean as far as, you have moved the weight inside with your body. Get the "twist of the wrist"  videos, it will explain it very well, very quickly. The old method of head over the centre line of the bike policeman riding style in not helpful.

If the rear tyre slips  with you on the inside you have much more control and are less likely to highside or lowside as you are more mobile. You weight should be ON YOUR FEET and hands, not your butt. The suspension works best when the bike is more vertical.

 

Even with all that. As the others have said, get to a decent riding school.

 

Or as R1 says, go dirt riding. Then you will be looking for places to get it sliding. That, however, is even more expensive.

And/or go mountainbike riding. It will teach you to allow the bike to move around without causing angst.

 

But the takeaway message, is that it sounds like a good quality riding school session would be worth the effort for you.

[pattonme]

still no info from OP about tire pressure and weight. Sounds way more that OP is a novice with little riding time.

 

Set your tire pressures to 32F/34R and go find an empty parking lot with lots of islands. Put the bike in 2nd gear and ride tightly (no more than 2 car spaces on either side) around an island at a decent clip (18-20mph'ish should be plenty) that requires you to counter-steer with some effort (ie. keep the pressure on the inside bar) and your head cranked hard in the direction of travel. Keep your butt planted firmly in the middle of the seat and your upper torso relaxed but otherwise inline with the roll axis of the bike (when viewed from behind, straight line from contact patch to your noggin) ie. you're not leaning more nor less than the bike is. Your knees need to be pressed firmly into the tank (not flapping about) and calves/glutes moderately clenched (previous poster mentioned weight on pegs) but not so much as to make your lower torso rigid.

 

The throttle should be on (engine actively pulling you forward) the whole way thru the 180+degree arc. Once you're comfortable doing that, make it a complete oval around the island. Hopefully there are a few islands spaced nicely that you can do a pattern of figure-8's.

 

The fundamental problem is you don't know how to ride corners properly. And having had an incident your self-preservation instinct is interfering with your learning. It's not your bike, be it suspension, tires, or anything else.

 

Once you can do the drill PERFECTLY in all respects and rail around with supreme mental comfort THEN you can up the pace to say 25mph and try doing things like shifting your butt inside a little bit, knee out (opposite knee jammed HARD into tank) and head+torso leaning over the mirror stalk a modest amount.

[r1limited]

And take them damn rudders off the bottom of the pegs

[Beemer]

Some video of yourself going into, around and coming out of a turn the way you normally do it would be helpful. If you have a buddy with a GoPro following you that would work nice.

[shinyribs]

17 hours ago, r1limited said:

And take them damn rudders off the bottom of the pegs

Boy, they are monsters on these bikes, ain't they? At first glance I thought Yamaha had equipped the bike with curb feelers.

[r1limited]

11 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

Boy, they are monsters on these bikes, ain't they? At first glance I thought Yamaha had equipped the bike with curb feelers.

To many times I hear the "My pegs caught caught the street.

[Randucci]

I removed mine today, they are threaded on the end and I just un-screwed them out.

 

 

[topazsparrow]

This will answer your questions and honestly all you need to know on this topic

 

[gregjet]

Er...the words copyright spring to mind. Though we found if you email Keith he is fine with fair use.

[Xrtaco]

On 5/17/2018 at 3:56 PM, topazsparrow said:

This will answer your questions and honestly all you need to know on this topic

 

Thanks for the video. Hits on most things I have thought about myself. Especially going 7/10 of your own skill level. I have about 700 miles on the bike and about 300 miles of carving corners and just thinking about me hitting corners at first I would lock up the steering when I didn't feel good. 

[Railhouse]

During your lowside... Your foot peg digging into the asphalt reduced the amount of traction the rear tire had and you lost traction that way. Look into proper body position for track riding and you will learn how to manage and reduce extreme lean angles even on the street.

 

Don't overthink it or worry about it. It's all just a learning curve. 

 

EDIT: I just realized how old this thread is... Sorry. Lol

[Cruizin]

On 4/22/2018 at 8:39 PM, rogueone said:

Hello everyone

 

I have this fear of my rear wheel slipping uncontrollably. In a way that's too fast for me to react.

When I corner, I have so much weight on the side the bike is leaned on. I think to myself there is not enough weight on the tire, the cornering momentum is going to push it from under me.

(Imagine someone slipping on oil or gravel that's what I imagine would happen on a nice road due to the momentum/pressure on the contact surface being at an angle).

 

This is all after I lowsided on a corner last summer. My pegs hit then the bike lowsided way too fast (safety guards at the bottom of the pegs were off). Someone told me I was going too slow for the corner.

 

I also have no feeling on the rear tire, I know when it slips but not the feedback of the surface. Is my suspension too lose or too tight?

The OP only posted this one post, a year ago and never returned.  By now he is probably on an FZ07 facebook group asking how to pull a wheelie or which stickers add more hp. 

 

Anywho, Dirtbikers learn TO slide their back tires out in corners, and once in a while I slide the rear a lil bit on a street corner.    Streetbikes don't just slide out on their own on dry pavement unless you are really pushing it or hitting the rear brake. 

[Beemer]

2 hours ago, Cruizin said:

The OP only posted this one post, a year ago and never returned.  By now he is probably on an FZ07 facebook group asking how to pull a wheelie or which stickers add more hp. 

 

Anywho, Dirtbikers learn TO slide their back tires out in corners, and once in a while I slide the rear a lil bit on a street corner.    Streetbikes don't just slide out on their own on dry pavement unless you are really pushing it or hitting the rear brake. 

Agreed, the dirt is where I learned and a dozen a day. With my FZ my rear end has accidentally slid in light gravel that I've hit on chewed up pavement a couple two or three times but that wasn't enjoyable, it's like you're on BB's or marbles and it's harder to control than a smooth, controlled power slide on nice, smooth blacktop. I can count those particular power slides on one hand. I enjoy them when they happen except for when you first lose traction, that part is a little un nerving when you're not expecting it and you don't know how far your rear end is going to kick out. I've had to slam my foot down before when it got out too far and started to low side. i stiffened my leg muscle to hold the bike up with the boot sliding and the bike slowly got traction and came back up.When you feather the throttle and the rear end hangs out to the side under control for a few seconds they're a rush but I never try to make them happen because I know how quickly they can go south and ruin your bike if you F up.  

[Cruizin]

3 minutes ago, Beemer said:

Agreed, the dirt is where I learned and a dozen a day. With my FZ my rear end has accidentally slid in light gravel that I've hit on chewed up pavement a couple two or three times but that wasn't enjoyable, it's like you're on BB's or marbles and it's harder to control than a smooth, controlled power slide on nice, smooth blacktop. I can count those particular power slides on one hand. I enjoy them when they happen except for when you first lose traction, that part is a little un nerving when you're not expecting it and you don't know how far your rear end is going to kick out. I've had to slam my foot down before when it got out too far and started to low side. i stiffened my leg muscle to hold the bike up with the boot sliding and the bike slowly got traction and came back up.When you feather the throttle and the rear end hangs out to the side under control for a few seconds they're a rush but I never try to make them happen because I know how quickly they can go south and ruin your bike if you F up. 

That's when Harley guys "had to lay her down" . 

[Beemer]

18 minutes ago, Cruizin said:

That's when Harley guys "had to lay her down" . 

IKR! Some of those dudes are big and strong but not that strong.

 

 

[bornagainbiker]

9 hours ago, Cruizin said:

That's when Harley guys "had to lay her down" .

Yeah, no way you're going to hold one of those behemoths up--unless you're the Hulk. 

[bornagainbiker]

On 5/17/2018 at 5:39 PM, Randucci said:

I removed mine today, they are threaded on the end and I just un-screwed them out.

 

 

After three full seasons, mine have never touched pavement--oh, the shame. It's no wonder my rear tire is wearing flat in the middle.

[topazsparrow]

2 hours ago, bornagainbiker said:

After three full seasons, mine have never touched pavement--oh, the shame. It's no wonder my rear tire is wearing flat in the middle.

I've got next to zero chicken strips on my rear tire and have only a couple scratches on those pegs. You've got to go out of your way on the street to drag those puppies - track might be a much different story.

 

I don't want to sound like a stuffy old man, but if you're regularly dragging those on the street you're either going too fast or you're riding poorly (counterleaning).

[Cruizin]

2 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

I've got next to zero chicken strips on my rear tire and have only a couple scratches on those pegs. You've got to go out of your way on the street to drag those puppies - track might be a much different story.

 

I don't want to sound like a stuffy old man, but if you're regularly dragging those on the street you're either going too fast or you're riding poorly (counterleaning).

Up in the canyons/mountains I lean all the way over but in town there is no need to lean like that. 

[topazsparrow]

23 minutes ago, Cruizin said:

Up in the canyons/mountains I lean all the way over but in town there is no need to lean like that. 

Man, even in the canyons, if you've got proper body positioning you shouldn't be scraping really.

 

That being said, I think with the soft stock suspension it might be a lot easier... so thats a factor.

[Cruizin]

2 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

Man, even in the canyons, if you've got proper body positioning you shouldn't be scraping really.

 

That being said, I think with the soft stock suspension it might be a lot easier... so thats a factor.

I'm usually getting home from mountain rides with scuffed knees. The guys I ride with, we are taking 25 mph corners at 60.