2018 brand new MT07, kind of hard to start from cold

[Wintersdark]

Just wanted to check with you guys first, as this is my first brand new bike.

 

My MT07 (owned one day) is kind of hard to start when cold.  Starts immediately when warm, but if it's sat for a couple hours it requires several seconds of cranking to fire.  Sort of like it doesn't spark at all initially - no stumbling start, just cranking like there's either no spark or no fuel, until it starts. No backfiring or roughness once it catches, so i dont think its lack of initial spark.  Runs fine once going.

 

Just wanted to check and see if this was normal (break in period?), before stopping in at the shop and poking them.  Mostly because that's a tremendous hassle, and I just want to ride.

 

 

[topazsparrow]

out of curiosity, next time it's cold, try starting it again. Once it does start, shut it off right away and then try again. Does it still take a while to start or does it fire up like it would when it's warm?

 

Are you letting the fuel pump prime before hitting the starter?

[Wintersdark]

Oh!  Haven't had a chance to test, but thinking on it at work:

 

I've been shutting it off via the kill switch, then turning the ignition on and thumbing through to start via the kill switch.

 

I bet I'm not letting the fuel pump prime - I've certainly not heard it.

[Wintersdark]

2 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

out of curiosity, next time it's cold, try starting it again. Once it does start, shut it off right away and then try again. Does it still take a while to start or does it fire up like it would when it's warm?

 

Are you letting the fuel pump prime before hitting the starter?

Yet, shut off and start again is instant.  But I think it's operator error - I've never had an EFI bike so I didn't even think of it, but if the fuel pump primes when the ignition switch is turned on, it may not be priming because the kill switch is still off.  

 

 

 

 

[topazsparrow]

3 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Yet, shut off and start again is instant.  But I think it's operator error - I've never had an EFI bike so I didn't even think of it, but if the fuel pump primes when the ignition switch is turned on, it may not be priming because the kill switch is still off.  

 

 

 

 

This is my best guess right now.

 

EFI is nice, but its a real PITA when your battery dies and you just want to push start the bike

[Wintersdark]

Confirmed, I'm an idiot.  Kill switch on first, THEN ignition, starts immediately.

[norcal616]

when you go to off the bike, kill the motor via the red thumb button rather than using the key... otherwise the next time you go to turn the bike on, the fuel pump primes and it will take a few extra turns to "synch" its self....   verses the next time you kill the motor via the thumb button then turn the power off, the motor will fire up almost instantly in my experience...

[gregjet]

You aren't using ultra high octane fuell are you. BP and a few others ( not Shell and Caltex) ultra octane fuel is really designed for turbo/super charged engine and can be problematic to start in engines not designed for it. I believe it is being changed to be more friendly currently.

[Beemer]

Also, make sure the oil isn't over filled.

[Wintersdark]

On 5/13/2018 at 3:55 PM, gregjet said:

You aren't using ultra high octane fuell are you. BP and a few others ( not Shell and Caltex) ultra octane fuel is really designed for turbo/super charged engine and can be problematic to start in engines not designed for it. I believe it is being changed to be more friendly currently.

Nah, just the 91 octane the dealership recommended.  I'm not a "high octane = better gas" guy, just use what the book says for a given application.

[Wintersdark]

On 5/14/2018 at 6:30 AM, Beemer said:

Also, make sure the oil isn't over filled.

Huh.  I looked at it when I got the bike, but didn't compare with the manual.  It is overfilled - up to the top of the sight glass with a small air bubble, which is where it should be on my old Yamaha however according to the MT07 manual is overfilled - should be between the lines on the sight glass, unless I've failed utterly at reading comprehension.

 

This makes me even more irritated with the dealership I bought it from.  Checked chain slack a couple days after getting it home, as it looked loose: 64mm, should be 51-56.  Manual even warned that 58+ can cause damage.  *sighs*

[CarGuy7a]

On 5/15/2018 at 12:23 PM, Wintersdark said:

Huh.  I looked at it when I got the bike, but didn't compare with the manual.  It is overfilled - up to the top of the sight glass with a small air bubble, which is where it should be on my old Yamaha however according to the MT07 manual is overfilled - should be between the lines on the sight glass, unless I've failed utterly at reading comprehension.

 

This makes me even more irritated with the dealership I bought it from.  Checked chain slack a couple days after getting it home, as it looked loose: 64mm, should be 51-56.  Manual even warned that 58+ can cause damage.  *sighs*

Are you checking the oil as the manual says. Manual says to run it for like 5 or 10 minutes then shut the bike off and let it rest for about 3min, then get the bike upright and check it. As long as it's between the 2 lines you're fine. When I change mine and add the manual recommended capacity of 2.75 quart with filter change, I check it (per service manual procedure ^^^) and it's right at the top of the 2 marks never in the center. It was filled the same when I bought it so I don't worry about it. Yep a new chain will stretch and loosen just gotta keep an eye on it.

[r1limited]

On 5/4/2018 at 6:02 PM, Wintersdark said:

Confirmed, I'm an idiot.  Kill switch on first, THEN ignition, starts immediately.

Ya want to know how many times this happened to me?

 

Not one time

 

 

[rick]

15 hours ago, r1limited said:

Ya want to know how many times this happened to me?

 

Not one time

 

 

Nor me as I leave it in the run position and use the ignition switch pretty much always - old (fart) habits. 

[r1limited]

3 minutes ago, rick said:

Nor me as I leave it in the run position and use the ignition switch pretty much always - old (fart) habits. 

 

[Wintersdark]

On 5/18/2018 at 6:27 AM, rick said:

Nor me as I leave it in the run position and use the ignition switch pretty much always - old (fart) habits. 

hah with previous bikes, I never touched the kill switch, ever.  However, my XJ (previous bike) had a hinky electrical system that required both the ignition AND kill switch to be turned off in order to shut down the bike - either on it's own, and it'd keep running.  So i got into the habit of thumbing the kill switch.  

 

This is made worse because the kill switch is also the start switch, so you can just turn the ignition on, then hit start.... and lo, no fuel pump priming.  Ah well, live and learn

[rick]

Kinda have to wonder if something wasn't right with that XJ. If the kill and ignition both must be shut down to turn off the bike, that sorta negates the purpose of having an easy to reach, emergency shut-off - basically what the kill switch is designed for. When was the last time you saw one in a car? 

[Wintersdark]

On 5/22/2018 at 5:15 AM, rick said:

Kinda have to wonder if something wasn't right with that XJ. If the kill and ignition both must be shut down to turn off the bike, that sorta negates the purpose of having an easy to reach, emergency shut-off - basically what the kill switch is designed for. When was the last time you saw one in a car? 

Well, yeah, there was definitely something wrong electrically there.  I spent a fair bit of time looking for it, but eventually gave up.  On a 35 year old bike with many layers of different owners doing random hackjobs on the electrical system, well... Itust wasn't as much of a priority as it didn't stop normal operation of the bike, and with a ride that old (and sporting 80,000 miles) there's always things that need attention that DO impact day to day operation.

[PMT-07]

Wait.. the kill switch to on first then ignition. Sometimes it doesn’t prime if I turn the ignition on then flip it to on position on kill switch.. should I reverse?

[shinyribs]

The kill switch, ignition switch and/or side stand switch ( when in gear) all just interrupt the ignition and tell the engine to stop. If the bike is set to "run", it's set to run, no matter the sequence the switches are activated in.

These twins have fairly large pistons and, depending on where the engine happened to stop, trying to push two of them up in quick succession ( crossplane) isn't easy. Add to that lean modern fueling ( you don't throw the gas to bikes when they're cold like you could with a choke or tickler on a carb) and you're just stuck with needing a couple revolutions of the engine before the fuel mixture starts flowing through the engine normally. The fuel injection is fully electronic, but the vapors being inhaled by the engine is still relying on good old fashioned physics ( vacuum ) as always. 

They're a little slow to start sometimes when cold. Hot, the fuel atomizes easily and will light right off. Nothing to worry about. One of the fun quirks of a big bore engine. 

[Triple Jim]

Plus I'm sure the ECU needs up to a turn of the cam to figure out where the crank and cam are so it knows when to fire the plugs.  That could be up to two turns of the crankshaft.

My MT starts perfectly, immediately runs smoothly, and does a bit of a fast idle for a minute or two, whether it's 95 degrees out or 40 degrees out.  It clearly runs a richer mixture for starting and warmup than it does when the engine is warm.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Triple Jim