I have to tighten my chain AT LEAST every 500 miles >:(

[AlbatrossCafe]

I have a 2015 with about 26k miles. Had a new chain and sprockets put on at around 20k.

 

I ride 5 days a week M-F about 50 per day. 42 of those are highway and 8 are city. I am 240lbs with all my gear and don't throttle the bike particularly hard. I have found that my chain needs tightening at least every 2 weeks (which is about 500 miles).

 

I tighten it to spec, set the axle nut at ~110 ft/lbs, and set the 4 chain adjustment nuts properly. Then, 1-2 weeks later, that chain is noisy AF and I have to do it all over again. It just gets super loose. My rear wheel alignment doesn't move during this time (meaning, it hasn't moved forward from where I set it 2 weeks prior) so it seems like the chain is getting stretched really quickly or something. I feel like soon I am gonna be all the way at the back of my rear-wheel adjustment range.

 

Any idea why it gets loose SO quickly?

[mjh937]

Did you have the problem with the old chain?   If not then the new chain seems very stretchy.  You must be getting close to running out of room to move the wheel back.  My OEM chain needed an adjustment at about 200 miles but has been fine since. 

[DewMan]

You didn't mention what brand and model of chain you have installed. If it was a cheaper quality chain it may be more prone to stretching than a better quality chain.

[norcal616]

 to keep tighten it to eliminate noise, will just keep stretching the chain...

[shinyribs]

It's either a cheap chain or it's being over-tightened. I don't mean that to sound judgmental or rude. I've been there before myself. 

 

If you keep stretching the chain, and running it like this, it's gonna wreck your sprockets, too. If you sprockets are still good, bite the bullet and get a good chain before you have to spend even more on new sprockets. Good luck, man. 

[YZEtc]

Can you post a clear, well-lit pic or video of your chain slack when it is determined to be loose enough to require another adjustment?

Specifically, pushing the bottom run of the chain up toward the swingarm (with the engine off, of course).

[rick]

Regardless of what chain, if it's gaining slack that often, it's time for a new chain. 

 

Did you replace the front sprocket with the new chain. If not, you should have a look as a worn front sprocket can kill a new chain (even a good quality chain) pretty quickly. 

 

Speaking of too tight. this is from the workshop manual - Considering that the axle nut has a tendency to dig into the axle, get stuck and cause damage to the chain adjuster at the other end, yer not doing yerself any favors by putting that much force (almost 50% more) on that nut

 

 

[rick]

Oh yeah. The chain will elongate, but it doesn't actually stretch. The pins and the holes in the rollers wear allowing the chain to appear longer. The side plates don't actually stretch. If that were to happen, the chain would fail pretty quickly. 

[r1limited]

Personally if you are not checking/inspecting both wheel alignment and chain play every couple hundred miles your not maintaining your chain.  A CHAIN IS A MAINTENANCE ITEM

[rick]

I just tightened the chain on my Aprilia a wee bit for the 1st time in 10k miles. That bike weighs 130 lb more and makes a solid 50% more HP than the FZ so its chain works quite a bit more..

 

I lube my chains every couple hundred miles - basically, after a tank of fuel. If chains needed that much maintenance, I'd go back to drive shafts in a heartbeat - the way I left crappy chains behind in 1976. 

[pattonme]

please post how loose you are setting the chain to and if you're doing it on a rear stand or with bike on side stand?

[r1limited]

5 minutes ago, rick said:

I lube my chains every couple hundred miles - basically, after a tank of fuel. If chains needed that much maintenance,

Key words I used were Check / Inspect I stated a Chain is a MAINTENANCE Item, that would include Lube, checking slack (Rotating rear wheel 1/4) and recheck chain slack until chain has made a full rotation.  I wont use cheap ass chains either, but I have had chains fail and its not fun.

[Beemer]

I was thinking like faffi was, it's suppose to be 76 ft./lb., not 110. I could be wrong but as a kid, whenever I tightened a nut too much on the axle of a bicycle the axle wouldn't spin freely as it should and I would have to back the nut off until it did. Now I'm wondering if 110 ft./lb. of torque on your axle nut is causing the same problem, making it harder for the wheel to turn and causing stress to your chain.

[shinyribs]

14 minutes ago, Beemer said:

I was thinking like faffi was, it's suppose to be 76 ft./lb., not 110. I could be wrong but as a kid, whenever I tightened a nut too much on the axle of a bicycle the axle wouldn't spin freely as it should and I would have to back the nut off until it did. Now I'm wondering if 110 ft./lb. of torque on your axle nut is causing the same problem, making it harder for the wheel to turn and causing stress to your chain.

Tightening the axle on this bike ( and most ll bikes) pinches the axle spacers that are outside and inside the wheel against the inner bearings races to prevent them from spinning. It doesn't create any additional side load against the bearings like what would happen with bicycle wheel bearings (or steering stem bearings on a motorcycle).

[rick]

12 minutes ago, Beemer said:

I was thinking like faffi was, it's suppose to be 76 ft./lb., not 110. I could be wrong but as a kid, whenever I tightened a nut too much on the axle of a bicycle the axle wouldn't spin freely as it should and I would have to back the nut off until it did. Now I'm wondering if 110 ft./lb. of torque on your axle nut is causing the same problem, making it harder for the wheel to turn and causing stress to your chain.

Interesting thought. If the inner spacer got compressed, think the wheel bearings would fail pretty quickly. Along with being dangerous, it wouldn't do the chain any good either to have the wheel moving about. 

 

Hopefully he meant Nm and not ft-lbs

[AlbatrossCafe]

15 hours ago, rick said:

Regardless of what chain, if it's gaining slack that often, it's time for a new chain. 

 

Did you replace the front sprocket with the new chain. If not, you should have a look as a worn front sprocket can kill a new chain (even a good quality chain) pretty quickly. 

 

Speaking of too tight. this is from the workshop manual - Considering that the axle nut has a tendency to dig into the axle, get stuck and cause damage to the chain adjuster at the other end, yer not doing yerself any favors by putting that much force (almost 50% more) on that nut

 

 

DOH!! I read the 105Nm as 105 ft/lbs, and then just got ti close enough. I'll fix this right now.

 

Tightening chain again. I'll get some good pics of the slack.

 

BRB

[AlbatrossCafe]

On 5/5/2018 at 10:38 PM, mjh937 said:

Did you have the problem with the old chain?   If not then the new chain seems very stretchy.  You must be getting close to running out of room to move the wheel back.  My OEM chain needed an adjustment at about 200 miles but has been fine since. 

Not sure about the old one. It was loose, but I wasn't as keen on adjusting it. At 20k when I replaced everything, the sprockets were completely shot though. Chain was very loose. And I'm pretty sure this is the end of adjustment after the 5th larger tick mark:

 

23 hours ago, DewMan said:

You didn't mention what brand and model of chain you have installed. If it was a cheaper quality chain it may be more prone to stretching than a better quality chain.

 

15 hours ago, rick said:

Regardless of what chain, if it's gaining slack that often, it's time for a new chain. 

 

Did you replace the front sprocket with the new chain. If not, you should have a look as a worn front sprocket can kill a new chain (even a good quality chain) pretty quickly.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't tell ya what chain I have. 2WheelDynoWorks actually did the work, and they replaced BOTH sprockets and chain. No idea what model it is or where to find that.

 

18 hours ago, YZEtc said:

Can you post a clear, well-lit pic or video of your chain slack when it is determined to be loose enough to require another adjustment?

Specifically, pushing the bottom run of the chain up toward the swingarm (with the engine off, of course).

15 hours ago, pattonme said:

please post how loose you are setting the chain to and if you're doing it on a rear stand or with bike on side stand?

I do it on the sidestand (don't have a center stand). Bike is in neutral so that chain isn't pulling against the transmission. I throw on chain lube every 500 miles or more.

 

Yahama Owner's manual chain spec: 5.1 - 5.6 cm or 2 - 2.2 inches

 

I am measuring between center of chain and chain guide (that little rubber piece) as specified in the manual as well.

 

BEFORE (loose chain): 11.25cm or 4.43 inches (pretty much double spec). I don't have to try to get an inch of the chain to rest on the swingarm above.

 

 

After (still kind of loose): 8.5cm or 3.34 inches (still over spec by 50%, ran out of adjustment range )

 

 

 

I am still too loose if you look at the owner's manual, but I can't go any further on adjustment. However, even though this is definitely NOT too tight, I bet in a couple weeks it will be back ready to fly off.

 

[pattonme]

first, put the bike in gear and roll it backwards till it stops. This tensions the upper run.

You don't measure the distance from swingarm (bumper) to chain center you measure chain-center to chain-center. Ie push all the way up, pull all the way down. Delta is 2".

I suspect you have an extra link in your chain - spec is 108 right? You likely have a 110.

Rear stands are like $60; $100 for a set. Buy one.

[shinyribs]

Bro, on these bikes, if you lift the bottom of the chain run with the bike in neutral the chain should just about reach the rear tip of the underside of the chain slider, but not quite. And that's light finger pressure, not pushing firmly on the chain.

 

And judging by the first pic your rear sprocket is gone. I've never bought a quality chain that didn't have it's name printed on it, but I don't think it matter at this point. I can't see your front sprocket, but I know you need a chain and rear sprocket. I'd just replace the whole set up. 

 

 

[rick]

I agree, it should just about touch the lower guide. I use a piece of hardboard that's about 3" long and 2" wide and sit it on edge on the chain and use that as my measure.

 

One of the things that's gonna be inconsistent from person to person is where the swinger is when you measure -  The manual doesn't state this, but as all the bikes are shipped with the shock in the 3rd ramp preload position and they want the chain checked on the sidestand, if you check chain slack with the shock on the highest preload setting - shock extended more ( and you likely have a lot of preload cranked in judging by your weight), the chain will be a bit looser than if measured with it in that 3rd spot. 

 

This is where having a centerstand OE is a really good thing. With weight off of the wheel, the shocks will all be fully extended and swingers will all be fully down - won't matter where the preload is set. (as long as the sprocket is not concentric with the swing arm pivot, chains (and belts)  all get tighter as the suspension comes up)

 

Kinda hard to take picts and show those measurements, but you should give the chain a bit of downward tension to take out some slack and then measure - even if you take slack out of the top run.

 

Definitely take a little time and count the links

 

 

 

 

[shinyribs]

I'm not sure shock preload settings will matter here, but correct me if I'm wrong. These bikes will sag in the rear with a rider on them, but with the bike resting on the sidestand the shock should be fully extended. Should be easy to test for this.  Now, if it's sitting on a rear paddock stand it's likely to settle some. 

[minkster]

I also say you made the chain too tight, when I press up on mine, it just barely touches the rubber under the swingarm.  You are supposed to measure 2 inches from center of the chain, not the top or bottom of the chain, to the rubber under the swingarm according to the manual.

[rick]

49 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

I'm not sure shock preload settings will matter here, but correct me if I'm wrong. These bikes will sag in the rear with a rider on them, but with the bike resting on the sidestand the shock should be fully extended. Should be easy to test for this.  Now, if it's sitting on a rear paddock stand it's likely to settle some. 

If it does top out on all of those shock collar steps while on the sidestand, then yep, it doesn't matter. Ideally that's how it should be

 

It's probably topped out for sure with the collar on one of the higher steps, but I'll bet it's not when it's on one of the lower ones. Is it topped out when on that OE 3rd step - well, someone else will need to answer as my OE shock is a wall ornament - in the basement.

 

I'd have to check, but I don't think my Ohlins shock is topped out with the preload I have cranked in - I know it's not vertical. Can check for sidestand behavior later, but I think not.

 

Anyway, you can see how this can get complicated - especially since the manual does not specify beyond being on the side stand.

 

This is also why belt drives don't work all that well on bikes with more than 2" of suspension travel - aka cruiser.

 

 

[r1limited]

You dont clean that chain much do you?  Going to stay out of this one, just sad.

[markstertt]

RK or DID should be evident on side plate of chain, should be able to eyeball to see if chain is O ring style but other than that you would need to call installer to ask what quality level

/brand.

 

Do as others asked per counting links...you shouldn't be all the way to back of axle slot with stock length chain.

 

Way to much adjusting going on here to be considered normal...something isn't right...IMHO.

 

I did a whole bunch of posting in the past on a situation where my sprockets weren't running in the same plane from bike centerline...the extreme wear was obvious on the inside of the C/S sprocket but less obvious on the rear unless you know what you're looking for. I'm not saying this is your problem but something to consider as perhaps a contributing factor on this bike.

 

Once sorted, you might consider a chain oiler since you're a pretty serious commuter...I just bought a Touro (sp?) but have yet to install it so no review but not a bad idea.

 

If you really want to know what visual picture to use for chain adjusting, then find a way to support the bike (front wheel chock, pc. of wood and jack under muffler or sump) remove the shock rear attach and raise and tie off the shock so that you can raise the swing arm to the point of the chains tightest positon....adjust the chain to have minimal slack (but slack) at this point. Now put it all back together and recheck the chain as per your usual method and remember what this looks like or measure in a way that you can duplicate. Probably to involved for the casual owner but just an idea...just me but I had to do it.

 

Good luck.