Which Shock with AP Moto Link?

[Evill_Ed]

I've been searching the thread but cannot find the answer I am looking for. I am deciding on which suspension upgrades I am going to buy. My FZ will be used  50/50 for Street / Track Days. I bought Andy's linkage but have not installed it yet.

 

I plan on using K-Tech suspension. K-Tech front Cartridges and a K-Tech Razor-R or RR rear shock.

The Razor-R is listed as 266 mm +/- 5 mm. The RR is listed as 276 mm +/- 5 mm.

I am confused because both of these are significantly shorter than the stock shock length I see listed at 310-312 mm.

I did read one thread on this forum  that mentioned using the shorter Razor-R with the AP link.

 

For those with the AP linkage, which brand and length shocks are you using?

I emailed Andy at AP for his recommendations but have not received a reply. 

 

Ed

[mossrider]

Just now, Evill_Ed said:

 

For those with the AP linkage, which brand and length shocks are you using?

I emailed Andy at AP for his recommendations but have not received a reply. 

 

Mine, with a JRi double adjust, is 12 9/16" center to center or 324ish mm (I have a link). I suspect you will find this measurement all over the board as everyone has a somewhat different setup. My buddies 07's have Ohlins, K-Tech, Bitubo and Wilburs (?), all are differing lengths.  Some don't even mess with the links.

 

C'est la vie.

[Evill_Ed]

38 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Mine, with a JRi double adjust, is 12 9/16" center to center or 324ish mm (I have a link). I suspect you will find this measurement all over the board as everyone has a somewhat different setup. My buddies 07's have Ohlins, K-Tech, Bitubo and Wilburs (?), all are differing lengths.  Some don't even mess with the links.

 

C'est la vie.

Thank you Mossrider.  If I understand correctly, Shock length is a big part of being able to obtain correct swing arm angle / geometry, correct? Wouldn't a shorter length shock lower the rear and reduce swing arm angle?

[blackout]

1 hour ago, Evill_Ed said:

I've been searching the thread but cannot find the answer I am looking for. I am deciding on which suspension upgrades I am going to buy. My FZ will be used  50/50 for Street / Track Days. I bought Andy's linkage but have not installed it yet.

 

I plan on using K-Tech suspension. K-Tech front Cartridges and a K-Tech Razor-R or RR rear shock.

The Razor-R is listed as 266 mm +/- 5 mm. The RR is listed as 276 mm +/- 5 mm.

I am confused because both of these are significantly shorter than the stock shock length I see listed at 310-312 mm.

I did read one thread on this forum  that mentioned using the shorter Razor-R with the AP link.

 

For those with the AP linkage, which brand and length shocks are you using?

I emailed Andy at AP for his recommendations but have not received a reply. 

 

Ed

The K-Tech shocks should not be shorter than stock.  I wonder if there is a misprint somewhere.   My Nitron shock was the same length as stock, but I do not remember the number off hand.

[mossrider]

Just now, Evill_Ed said:

Thank you Mossrider.  If I understand correctly, Shock length is a big part of being able to obtain correct swing arm angle / geometry, correct? Wouldn't a shorter length shock lower the rear and reduce swing arm angle?

Generally speaking, yes. But other things have an affect on rear height or swinger angle as well. And there are other means of producing similar changes in geometry. This is an area I'm not very sharp at and gets into geometry and handling and math and physics and you're making my effen head hurt here...

 

The link, which is shorter than the stock one raises ride height and in essence increases swinger angle. I haven't measured one side by side with mine, but I suspect an R6 front end would lower the front end, in effect decreasing the swinger angle. BUT, this would also put more weight on the front, quicken steering and reduce the tendency to lift the front wheel.

 

Raising the stock fork tubes up in the tripples would also have the net effect of decreasing swinger angle but rolls the bike over on its nose a bunch, which as in my case with the shorter link-longer shock and taller 180/60 aspect ratio tire makes all this clear as mud.

 

 

[Evill_Ed]

52 minutes ago, blackout said:

The K-Tech shocks should not be shorter than stock.  I wonder if there is a misprint somewhere.   My Nitron shock was the same length as stock, but I do not remember the number off hand.

Maybe the listing is wrong  276mm is 10.66 in, that would make it 1.4 in shorter than the stock shock . Ill check with the vendor to see if the specs are correct. 

 

Ed

 

[blackout]

4 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

Maybe the listing is wrong  276mm is 10.66 in, that would make it 1.4 in shorter than the stock shock . Ill check with the vendor to see if the specs are correct. 

 

Ed

 

1.4" shorter would make a huge difference at the wheel.  There is no way it would even remotely work properly.  Look up JD Hord with Hordpower.  He knows K-tech and the FZ-07 and sells the shocks.

[Evill_Ed]

2 minutes ago, blackout said:

1.4" shorter would make a huge difference at the wheel.  There is no way it would even remotely work properly.  Look up JD Hord with Hordpower.  He knows K-tech and the FZ-07 and sells the shocks.

Will do

[blackout]

I'd like to know if the longer K-tech shock gets its longer length from a longer stroke length.  If it did, that would be cool.  More travel for those Isle of Mann TT jumps.    If it's just a longer shock clevis setup, then meh....  But the racers are jacking the FZ-07 rear up so much there is plenty of room for more travel.   

 

You do want a higher swingarm angle.  It reduces rear squat under acceleration, keeping weight on the front during corner exit, so that the bike does not drift wide.  The somewhat low swingarm angle could be one reason why the FZ-07 wheelies so well.   More rear squat, so more front lift.  

[Evill_Ed]

Just received a response from Cody at STG. The Razor-R is 310 mm -6/+4 and the RR is 325 mm -6/+4.

The Razor-R is the shock that I had saw referenced with the AP Link. 

Ed

[blackout]

5 hours ago, Evill_Ed said:

Just received a response from Cody at STG. The Razor-R is 310 mm -6/+4 and the RR is 325 mm -6/+4.

The Razor-R is the shock that I had saw referenced with the AP Link. 

Ed

The way I see it, the RR shock was designed to not need the AP Link, but a racer may want both.   Also, I see the L-link on the swingarm moving out of it's optimum mechanical position the longer the shock is.  And clevis clearance becomes an issue as well.  You  could run the AP Link first and see how  you like the height.  Then pick the shock.

[fishtaco]

I spoke to Andy (AP) when I ordered my rear link, got some good info.....

He said the rear K-Tech RR  should be set @ 318mm in combination with his link, also stated that after you install the front cartridges the forks should be raised 15mm above the clamp (shortening the front fork height) and that the 180/60 profile rear tire is what you want for this combo. 

[Evill_Ed]

22 hours ago, fishtaco said:

I spoke to Andy (AP) when I ordered my rear link, got some good info.....

He said the rear K-Tech RR  should be set @ 318mm in combination with his link, also stated that after you install the front cartridges the forks should be raised 15mm above the clamp (shortening the front fork height) and that the 180/60 profile rear tire is what you want for this combo. 

Raise the fork tubes 15mm ? Is that correct?   That seems like a lot. I think that would reduce trail too much and make the bike twitchy.

 

Ed

[fishtaco]

yes that is what Andy said... raise the forks,  but you can always call him and ask.

As soon as I get my cartridges installed i'll let you know how she feels. 

[Evill_Ed]

11 minutes ago, fishtaco said:

yes that is what Andy said... raise the forks,  but you can always call him and ask.

As soon as I get my cartridges installed i'll let you know how she feels. 

  I trust whatever Andy recommends, 15 mm just seemed like a lot, most things I have read range from 2-5 mm.

Let me know how it works out for you.

 

Ed

[Kyuzo]

On 1/17/2019 at 4:05 PM, Evill_Ed said:

  I trust whatever Andy recommends, 15 mm just seemed like a lot, most things I have read range from 2-5 mm.

Let me know how it works out for you.

 

Ed

With stock forks or R6 swap? Or both?

[Evill_Ed]

I was referring to stock forks.

I think th R6 forks are shorter than the stock FZ forks.

 

Ed

[atwater]

Not an attempt to get this to an exhaust conversation but worth knowing. I’m running the Leo Vince under body set up and nitron rear shock. I can only get around 2mm over stock length on the shock before I’m hitting the muffler with the swing arm. Haven’t calculated any swing arm angles to see where I’m at already but the AP link  or any other link would certainly cause some rethinking. Hopefully it helps somebody.

[Evill_Ed]

5 hours ago, atwater said:

Not an attempt to get this to an exhaust conversation but worth knowing. I’m running the Leo Vince under body set up and nitron rear shock. I can only get around 2mm over stock length on the shock before I’m hitting the muffler with the swing arm. Haven’t calculated any swing arm angles to see where I’m at already but the AP link  or any other link would certainly cause some rethinking. Hopefully it helps somebody.

Good information, thanks for your input.

I need to take some accurate measurements of my stock set up to see exactly where I am starting from. 

 

Right now I am leaning toward the K-Tech Razor-R at 310 mm -6/+4. This should allow me to dial the shock in with the AP Link if I do use it. 

 

Ed

[garbodp]

Hey Ed,

Did you ever get your shock? I have the setup you are talking about and might go a diff direction. Not to scare you... it works Fantastically. I would def recommend frt end work. I did my upgrades in stages, and I started with the rear. The two mos. I rode without the front done was scary. Front end would fold in and pogo everywhere. The raised ride height and great reacting rear really made the front end's deficits, very apparent.

I am planning on selling the setup if your interested . Its the Razor RR / AP link. It also had additional Top off valving done per Andy's specs. it was set for 175lbs.

[Evill_Ed]

37 minutes ago, garbodp said:

Hey Ed,

Did you ever get your shock? I have the setup you are talking about and might go a diff direction. Not to scare you... it works Fantastically. I would def recommend frt end work. I did my upgrades in stages, and I started with the rear. The two mos. I rode without the front done was scary. Front end would fold in and pogo everywhere. The raised ride height and great reacting rear really made the front end's deficits, very apparent.

I am planning on selling the setup if your interested . Its the Razor RR / AP link. It also had additional Top off valving done per Andy's specs. it was set for 175lbs.

Yes, I got the AP linkage and the RAZOR  RR. I also did my forks with Ohlins cartridges. Did my first track day with this set up last week, I’m very pleased with the results. The suspension felt great. 

 

Ed

[howworkclutch]

On 6/9/2019 at 9:06 PM, Evill_Ed said:

Yes, I got the AP linkage and the RAZOR  RR. I also did my forks with Ohlins cartridges. Did my first track day with this set up last week, I’m very pleased with the results. The suspension felt great. 

 

Ed

And did you also move the fork tubes up 15mm?  That seems excessive but if it works it work.

[Evill_Ed]

10 minutes ago, howworkclutch said:

And did you also move the fork tubes up 15mm?  That seems excessive but if it works it work.

I have the AP link and my Razor RR is adjusted to 319mm, I left the fork in the stock position. The steering is quicker with the rear end raised, high speed straight line stability feels the same as it did stock. I see no need to raise the fork tubes, I am very satisfied with the handling. I would be concerned that raising the tubes may make it twitchy or less stable. 

Ed

[howworkclutch]

22 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

I have the AP link and my Razor RR is adjusted to 319mm, I left the fork in the stock position. The steering is quicker with the rear end raised, high speed straight line stability feels the same as it did stock. I see no need to raise the fork tubes, I am very satisfied with the handling. I would be concerned that raising the tubes may make it twitchy or less stable. 

Ed

Thanks for confirming, Ed. I suspected the fork-drop wasnt completely necessary.

[Mechie]

Sorry to bump an older thread. 

I am curious about how to dial in my setup. 

Currently I am setting up the Andreani Cartridges and the Nitron Shock.  I do not have the AP Link. 

My question:

What would be the recommend baseline setup to get started? Primary commuting use, but would like less squat and more sport feel. 

Set the Shock to 325mm to match the K-Tech RR and drop the triples ~10mm like DMT recommends? 

Rider sag set square at 35%  F/R?

Tire size is stock