7fold Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 So I came across this video earlier today: I know a lot of people complain about the budget suspension on our bikes, but I didn't ever think it was as serious as this video makes it seem. I've always wanted to tinker with my settings, but really had no idea where to start (I have a 2018, to the rear is adjustable at least). Also, do you guys think a set of pre-load adjusters would accomplish what he's talking about in the vid? I'm not sure if this would fit more in the suspension upgrade thread as I'm not trying to actually upgrade, just work with what I've got to start, but feel free to move the topic if that is a better fit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, 7fold said: Also, do you guys think a set of pre-load adjusters would accomplish what he's talking about in the vid? Adding extra preload would achieve the opposite of what’s being suggested in the video. Cutting the spacer shorter reduces preload. Basically what the video demonstrates is that good static sag numbers are hard to achieve with the stock front suspension. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Preload adjusters would give you option to adjust for more or less preload without opening forks and changing spacers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bountiful Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Haha, I came here to post this but it looks like someone beat me to it XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted February 22, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 22, 2020 I have lost a little respect for Dave Moss. Seems a little dramatic and he never really explains the tech behind the "problem" spacer. 3 Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNGFZ07Rider Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just saw this, https://youtu.be/s91qcAXWKpI . Has anyone done this? If so how does it ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7fold Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, blackout said: I have lost a little respect for Dave Moss. Seems a little dramatic and he never really explains the tech behind the "problem" spacer. I usually like watching his videos, too, but the "Don't Ride" part kind of made me laugh a bit...I'm with you on the overly dramatic part haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 22, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 22, 2020 On 2/22/2020 at 10:07 AM, blackout said: I have lost a little respect for Dave Moss. Seems a little dramatic and he never really explains the tech behind the "problem" spacer. Me too.... Modern suspension set-ups have gotten to the point of being what I call "analysis-paralysis"... TOO many options!!! It's a good marketing strategy- tell people what they have sucks, and they'll spend more money on upgrades.... For most street riders/commuters on the FZ/MT-07 platform, the stock suspension in fine. This bike is marketed as an entry-level bike. If owners choose to "take it to the track", that's different... I have a dedicated track only FZ-07. I've upgraded the suspension (front & rear), and have a dedicated suspension tuner that is worth every dime I've spent on setting up my suspension to fit my personal riding style, and what feels "right" to me personally. What feels "right" to one rider, might feel "scary" to another rider of the exact same weight. You can even see it at the Moto GP level. Some riders like the back end "loose" to slide it through a corner. Other riders like it "tight" to carve through like a scalpel.... Who's "right"??? Their lap times will be about the same? They both are!!!! Each rider found what is right for them personally. I have a 2019 Yamaha R3 for street use. I've upgraded the suspension (front & rear), but not even close to the level of my dedicated track-only FZ-07. For street use, suspension upgrades are "nice". They are far from "needed" though- If you choose to upgrade your suspension, that's your choice. Just don't get caught up in the marketing end of the spectrum. 5 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, cornerslider said: If you look at the OEM "tech" from even 20 years ago, the FZ-07 suspension is pretty damn nice!!! Maybe because it is 40+ year old tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 22, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, twf said: Maybe because it is 40+ year old tech Yamaha is into selling product. That's what keeps them around, and providing bikes that are affordable to new(er) riders. That is good for all of us. If Yamaha produced a "premium" FZ/MT-07, with upgraded suspension for even as little as $1000 extra, that might satisfy MAYBE 5% of the market? The current market for "carry-over" FZ/MT-07's is usually flooded with the ABS versions. People don't even want to spend an extra $500 for ABS-brakes? Sad as it is, for most folks buying a new bike is about the "bottom line"- MONEY.... ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuzo Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Fatel Flaw. Click bait? lol. I wouldnt lose respect for Dave.. I always ask him for advise on my suspension setups free of charge and I at least owe him some starbucks gift certificate or something. This video though does get into more details about sags and rider types though. Which was really informative.. I wonder about tire pressure as well.. Anyhow I ride my bike more like a dirt bike (fast take offs and wheelies once and a while) lower sag in back and stuff. Kinda hard to slam the front going to 7/11 for that slurpy... Edited February 22, 2020 by Kyuzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member DewMan Posted February 22, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 hours ago, cornerslider said: Me too.... Modern suspension set-ups have gotten to the point of being what I call "analysis-paralysis"... TOO many options!!! It's a good marketing strategy- tell people what they have sucks, and they'll spend more money on upgrades.... For most street riders/commuters on the FZ/MT-07 platform, the stock suspension in fine. spectrum. If you look at the OEM "tech" from even 20 years ago, the FZ-07 suspension is pretty damn nice!!! My FZ-07 was the first bike I've ever owned that I felt the need to do any suspension changes to from factory stock. It probably had more to do with it not being sprung properly for my weight front and rear more than any inherent issue with the factory suspension. I posted numerous times about my reasons that I upgraded. I will admit that, due to my long hiatus from riding, the factory suspension was probably the most advanced I'd ever ridden to that point, but I still was leery of the handling of the bike any time it was on anything other than flat straight road. But I agree not everyone needs to upgrade, especially if they're of the weight the factory setup was designed for and you're not wanting to ride overly aggressively. 2 DewMan Just shut up and ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member fzar Posted February 22, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just upgrade the suspension, you'll be happy you did. I know I am, its night/day the difference. And as he stated the rear shock is NOT SERVICEABLE. The front, you can play with it in many different ways. Just have an idea of what you use the bike for and what you want out of it. It can be as cheap or as expensive depending on what you desire and the size of your wallet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted February 23, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 23, 2020 Fatal flaw= using 130# teenage sized test riders vs realistic owner weights... 2 2 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, norcal616 said: They kinda don't care how it rides. They know full well how to properly suspend a bike. They want it to sag and be soft and fit junior or princess on the showroom floor so you'll take it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylerhsm Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 16 hours ago, cornerslider said: If you look at the OEM "tech" from even 20 years ago, the FZ-07 suspension is pretty damn nice!!! "> Say what? The FZ-07 suspension "tech" is nice? It's far worse than the suspension from plenty of bikes from the 90's, and not particularly expensive bikes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watarski Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 So has anyone done what he suggested to the front forks? Cutting down the spacers and putting in heavier oil? I'm not really at a point where I want to drop more cash on a new fork setup (especially since my wife may get my current MT...) but I would be curious if just those two things will make a significant difference from stock. I have an Ohlins rear shock I got on a smoking Christmas deal, would like a little more performance out of the front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 23, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 23, 2020 4 hours ago, kylerhsm said: Say what? The FZ-07 suspension "tech" is nice? It's far worse than the suspension from plenty of bikes from the 90's, and not particularly expensive bikes either. Yeah, that sounds pretty stupid now that I re-read it..... My bad- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 23, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, watarski said: So has anyone done what he suggested to the front forks? Cutting down the spacers and putting in heavier oil? I'm not really at a point where I want to drop more cash on a new fork setup (especially since my wife may get my current MT...) but I would be curious if just those two things will make a significant difference from stock. I have an Ohlins rear shock I got on a smoking Christmas deal, would like a little more performance out of the front. I'm by no means a suspension expert, but I've done enough front end upgrades to possibly answer your question. The short answer is probably not.... Dampening rod suspensions are both too "soft", and too "harsh" at the same time. They are cheap to manufacture, and they are amazingly simple. That's why manufactures use them on entry level bikes. There is a YouTube video explaining all of this. Do a search on "fork emulators". You can however, install Racetech gold valve emulators. I put them in my FZ-07, my wifes R3, and every other bike I've owned with dampening rod suspension. For about $175, you can get a lot! You can also add proper springs for your weight springs for an extra $125 (which I recommend). I posted step by step instructions on the install a couple years ago in the "tech tips" section. Basicly, for about $300, you can get a really nice front end without spending $1000 on cartridges- 2 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member fzar Posted February 23, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 hours ago, watarski said: So has anyone done what he suggested to the front forks? Cutting down the spacers and putting in heavier oil? I'm not really at a point where I want to drop more cash on a new fork setup (especially since my wife may get my current MT...) but I would be curious if just those two things will make a significant difference from stock. I have an Ohlins rear shock I got on a smoking Christmas deal, would like a little more performance out of the front. A suspension guy @pattonme used to recommend taking out the spacer and buy pvc 1" diameter pipe and just cut the pvc shorter than the spacer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
208MT07 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/22/2020 at 11:30 AM, cornerslider said: Me too.... Modern suspension set-ups have gotten to the point of being what I call "analysis-paralysis"... TOO many options!!! It's a good marketing strategy- tell people what they have sucks, and they'll spend more money on upgrades.... For most street riders/commuters on the FZ/MT-07 platform, the stock suspension in fine.> I watched the video, and it didn't seem like he was telling people to spend money on suspension upgrades, he actually seemed to say the opposite.. He shows how to make sure you have the shock dialed in for static sag, and gives a cheap way to make the front perform better(if you do the work his recommended fix is easily under $100, even if you buy new spacers to cut down beforehand) vs $200 and up for emulators or cartridge kits. He did mention buying an aftermarket shock, but it seemed like he felt for most people that wasn't really necessary. And from what I've read in the comments of the video he makes these recommendations for a street based setup. I'd love to upgrade with cartridge kits and a good rear shock, but I don't have $700+ to drop on that right now. If I can dial in the stock shock and modify the forks for less than $100 and improve the ride I figure why not? Just my .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 36 minutes ago, 208MT07 said:If I can dial in the stock shock and modify the forks for less than $100 and improve the ride I figure why not? Just my .02. For sure, it all comes down to how you want to use the bike, the type of riding you do and your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted February 24, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted February 24, 2020 17 hours ago, 208MT07 said: I watched the video, and it didn't seem like he was telling people to spend money on suspension upgrades, he actually seemed to say the opposite.. He shows how to make sure you have the shock dialed in for static sag, and gives a cheap way to make the front perform better(if you do the work his recommended fix is easily under $100, even if you buy new spacers to cut down beforehand) vs $200 and up for emulators or cartridge kits. He did mention buying an aftermarket shock, but it seemed like he felt for most people that wasn't really necessary. And from what I've read in the comments of the video he makes these recommendations for a street based setup. I'd love to upgrade with cartridge kits and a good rear shock, but I don't have $700+ to drop on that right now. If I can dial in the stock shock and modify the forks for less than $100 and improve the ride I figure why not? Just my .02. I never insinuated anything like that??? I was actually replying to @blackout, and his post. If you’re happy with your stock suspension, you should totally keep it stock- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip it & Rip it Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 For all the complaints about the stock suspension, I’ve never had an issue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scat2me Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 2 years riding with the stock suspension and have had zero issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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