Troubleshooting: Power Loss, Stalled, Then No Start

[tmysl]

Hey, everyone.

Last night while riding home, I pulled away from a light and noticed moderate power loss. I didn't think a ton of it at first, until the bike started to cut out and lost power completely, before stalling out. I pulled off to the side of the road, restarted the bike (it struggled a bit, but seemed to be idling fine once it started), and tried to pull away. It completely lost power and cut out the second I tried to give it gas to pull away. From there, it wouldn't start.

I pushed it over to a nearby friend's house, and I'm now attempting to troubleshoot. It seems completely fine electrically and will turn over, but not start. Could anyone help point me in the right direction?

[sorkyah]

sounds like a fuel issue. hows the tank level? getting low??
does it attempt to turn over while holding it upright? like does it fire once or twice before failing?|

any mods recently? what model year bike?

 

[DewMan]

8 minutes ago, sorkyah said:

sounds like a fuel issue. hows the tank level? getting low??
does it attempt to turn over while holding it upright? like does it fire once or twice before failing?|

any mods recently? what model year bike?

 

Bad gas?

[bornagainbiker]

Any error codes?

[tmysl]

19 minutes ago, sorkyah said:

sounds like a fuel issue. hows the tank level? getting low??
does it attempt to turn over while holding it upright? like does it fire once or twice before failing?|

any mods recently? what model year bike?

 

It's a 2015. Fuel is at about 60-70%. It just cranks endlessly without starting, regardless of position.

I haven't done any new mods since I got the bike in August.

 

12 minutes ago, bornagainbiker said:

Any error codes?

I had an error code when it stalled out the very first time. I didn't look close enough in the moment to remember what it was, and I haven't received it since. Is there a way to bring up the code again without starting the motor?

[mossrider]

Here's what the good book has to say on the issue,

As always, start with the simple/easy/obvious first and double check everything. 

 

[bornagainbiker]

1 hour ago, tmysl said:

I had an error code when it stalled out the very first time. I didn't look close enough in the moment to remember what it was, and I haven't received it since. Is there a way to bring up the code again without starting the motor?

If it doesn't come up when you turn on the ignition, I don't know of any other way to get it.  Maybe someone here with a lot more knowledge than me will correct me on this one.  I'm definitely no expert.

[rfmueller]

Water or plugged gas line will cause that issue.  It's fairly easy to pull the fuel line from the injector bank; it's a quick disconnect.  You'll want to make sure the line is pointed in a safe direction because when you turn it over, that high pressure fuel pump will tend to throw some gasoline.  If nothing comes out, there's the start of your problem.  Else, it may shoot out some water and then you'll be good to go.

[mjh937]

Could it be a blown fuse for the fuel pump?  It seems like checking the fuses fixes a lot of issues. 

[shinyribs]

First of all, do you hear the fuel pump running?

If no, check fuses. If fuses are good, suspect the pump, but check all wiring/connectors first.

If the pump is running, check for fuel flow like rfmueller described. 

[tmysl]

I was definitely hoping it'd be a fuse, but they're all good. I do hear the fuel pump running and did an inspection of all the wiring and connectors, which appear to be solid.

I'm going to check the fuel flow as soon as I can get it back home.

[Beemer]

I've heard so many weird things with the kickstand not being completely up or the sensor causing problems for various reasons. I kinda doubt it's that but when a bike just suddenly starts acting up with no prior warning or no build up to it you have to wonder just what made this suddenly start happening. That error code ..... I wonder, if you disconnect your battery and reconnect it if it will show up again. GL, I hope you solve the problem soon.

[geophb]

Trying to start in neutral should eliminate possible clutch switch or kickstand switch malfunctions.

Start with the basics. I believe that code should be stored.

[tmysl]

Update:

I've checked the fuel flow and it's flowing just fine. Flowed a ton when I turned on the power while it was disconnected from the fuel rail.

It won't start with starter fluid, so I thought maybe it was a spark issue, so I replaced the spark plugs while I was there.

Still no start.

 

[robbo10]

Kickstand down, clutch pulled, does it start? (a further test of stand switch)

[ElGonzales]

Is it possible to put one of the old spark plugs into an ignition coil, hold the thread against the zylinder and check if there is a spark while cranking?

(yeah the 07 is my first modern bike, I am used to 80s stuff with carburetors and kickstarters and stuff. And warning because of high voltage!!      )

[Bigturbomax]

Alright, so we are assuming there is compression as we have no reason to believe otherwise. You know you have fuel flow and it won't start with starting fluid. So now you know its not sparking. You just did plugs so it's not that(and would have been unlikely as plugs will cause poor running but seldom cause a no start all of a sudden like that, not when there is more than one cylinder). Statistically its  highly unlikely that both coils failed at the same time. So as a tech, that would tell me the ECU is likely disabling spark on purpose. To my knowledge side stand switch, gear position switch and clutch switches are the only inputs to that interlock circuit. Check these three inputs. 

 

 

[norcal616]

Dont forget the tip over sensor

[Bigturbomax]

44 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

Dont forget the tip over sensor

Good call, tip over sensor will also activate the interlock. Thanks for adding that

[tmysl]

3 hours ago, robbo10 said:

Kickstand down, clutch pulled, does it start? (a further test of stand switch)

Outside of fully starting, it seems to be functioning as I'd expect in any kickstand/clutch combination. With the kickstand down, it won't even try if it's in gear; kickstand up, it'll crank as long as the clutch is pulled in. It'll try to crank in neutral regardless of the kickstand or clutch.

 

1 hour ago, norcal616 said:

Dont forget the tip over sensor

I just pulled the tip over sensor to take a look and everything appears to be in order (in my non-professional opinion ).

1 hour ago, Bigturbomax said:

Alright, so we are assuming there is compression as we have no reason to believe otherwise. You know you have fuel flow and it won't start with starting fluid. So now you know its not sparking. You just did plugs so it's not that(and would have been unlikely as plugs will cause poor running but seldom cause a no start all of a sudden like that, not when there is more than one cylinder). Statistically its  highly unlikely that both coils failed at the same time. So as a tech, that would tell me the ECU is likely disabling spark on purpose. To my knowledge side stand switch, gear position switch and clutch switches are the only inputs to that interlock circuit. Check these three inputs. 

 

 

How would I go about checking these inputs? What exactly am I looking for when I inspect them?

[Bigturbomax]

You need a digital voltmeter/ohmeter...

[norcal616]

Voltmeter and the service manual... the service manual will have testing/troubleshooting procedures...

[robbo10]

You guys would know whether or not the throttle position sensor could go awol and be a cause. 

[bugeyes]

13 hours ago, tmysl said:

Outside of fully starting, it seems to be functioning as I'd expect in any kickstand/clutch combination. With the kickstand down, it won't even try if it's in gear; kickstand up, it'll crank as long as the clutch is pulled in. It'll try to crank in neutral regardless of the kickstand or clutch.

That pretty much takes away the kickstand and clutch sensors from the troubleshooting.

[tmysl]

Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for all of your input. Just a quick update to let you all know how this went. I was ultimately able to find the issue and get the bike running again, and it turned out to be the simplest, stupidest issue (as I'm sure is often the case).

I found that it definitely wasn't getting spark, so with the help of a professional motorcycle mechanic friend of mine we were tracking down the causes with his service manual. While I was waiting for him to take a look at some of the more technical stuff, I was checking (for what felt like the hundredth time) some of the wiring just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Sure enough, I had.

There was one semi-hidden wire running from my Power Commander's wiring harness that was supposed to be connected to the negative terminal of the battery. It appears that at some point under the previous owner's hands, the metal cable end snapped, and his decision was apparently to use electrical tape to stick it back in place, which came loose and caused spark to cut.

This isn't the first time I've been irritated with the handiwork of the previous owner, and I'm sure it won't be the last. I'm just glad it was a free repair.  Again, thanks for all of your input and suggestions.