So, we're supercharging a MT07 (need some help with Dynoo Data)

[Fsae_Douglas]

Hey there, My name is Douglas and i participate in an university grade motorsports competition called FSAE. Basically, we pick a motorcycle engine(710cc max), and build a car around it, following the rules imposed by SAE. Designed, built, and raced by students. (turbo and supercharging are allowed)

Anyways, its a complex "sport", if anyone has any questions, im glad to help!

Lets go straight to the topic. I, as the Powertrain lead of our team, am starting to design a Supercharged MT07 (super over turbo for various reasons i can discuss later), i have selected one roots style blower (Eaton TVS R250), and made the calculations to get 90hp on low boost (5psi) and 110hp on high boost (10psi). [Keep in mind our car weights 200kg].

See some of the data below

 

This plot is basically how much air the engine breathes, in red the NA engine, in yellow the setup that gets 90hp, intercooled 5psi of boost, and in Blue the setup that gets me 90hp without a intercooler (around 7.6 psi). The horizontal line, near the 250kg/h is our intake restriction that is of mandatory use during the dynamic events.

This was made to justify the use of an intercooler, mainly.

This is the main plot i get from a Matlab program i made to size a roots blower to the MT07/FZ07 engine , but it is all in there, Max rpm, SC displacement, Temperature gain, etc etc. If it interests anyone i could definetly share the data.

 Yamaha was suppose to give us an engine, but Covid-19 crisis started and that kinda got delayed.

Poblem is that i have time on my hands, and i want to make this project work, but for that i need Dyno data, i need the table with the power outputs so i can sim the supercharger loads and get a "Supercharged Dyno torque curve" that we can rely on to design the rest of the car (the loads imply on suspension design, aero setups, etc etc)

I would like to know if any of you guys would have that kind of info, or know where i could get it.

Thanks in advance, and lets gooooooo

That MT07 is going to whistle real soon


Pic of the car so you guys can see what im talking about

[Cruizin]

4 hours ago, Fsae_Douglas said:

Hey there, My name is Douglas and i participate in an university grade motorsports competition called FSAE. Basically, we pick a motorcycle engine(710cc max), and build a car around it, following the rules imposed by SAE. Designed, built, and raced by students. (turbo and supercharging are allowed)

Anyways, its a complex "sport", if anyone has any questions, im glad to help!

Lets go straight to the topic. I, as the Powertrain lead of our team, am starting to design a Supercharged MT07 (super over turbo for various reasons i can discuss later), i have selected one roots style blower (Eaton TVS R250), and made the calculations to get 90hp on low boost (5psi) and 110hp on high boost (10psi). [Keep in mind our car weights 200kg].

See some of the data below

 

This plot is basically how much air the engine breathes, in red the NA engine, in yellow the setup that gets 90hp, intercooled 5psi of boost, and in Blue the setup that gets me 90hp without a intercooler (around 7.6 psi). The horizontal line, near the 250kg/h is our intake restriction that is of mandatory use during the dynamic events.

This was made to justify the use of an intercooler, mainly.

This is the main plot i get from a Matlab program i made to size a roots blower to the MT07/FZ07 engine , but it is all in there, Max rpm, SC displacement, Temperature gain, etc etc. If it interests anyone i could definetly share the data.

 Yamaha was suppose to give us an engine, but Covid-19 crisis started and that kinda got delayed.

Poblem is that i have time on my hands, and i want to make this project work, but for that i need Dyno data, i need the table with the power outputs so i can sim the supercharger loads and get a "Supercharged Dyno torque curve" that we can rely on to design the rest of the car (the loads imply on suspension design, aero setups, etc etc)

I would like to know if any of you guys would have that kind of info, or know where i could get it.

Thanks in advance, and lets gooooooo

That MT07 is going to whistle real soon


Pic of the car so you guys can see what im talking about

You really need to talk to @2wheeldynoworks Nobody has Tuned more MT07's. 

Someone else on here has turbocharghed one, but I cant for the life of me remember which one. @mjh937 ? 

[geophb]

How are you going to spin the supercharger?  ie What is it going to be driven off of?

[topazsparrow]

9 hours ago, Cruizin said:

You really need to talk to @2wheeldynoworks Nobody has Tuned more MT07's. 

Someone else on here has turbocharghed one, but I cant for the life of me remember which one. @mjh937 ? 

I'd just get in touch directly with ExtremeCreations out of australia since they make the kit. I bet they have a ton of data on it.

On a side note, I'll be curious to see how a Ptwin holds up against similar size inline 4's with turbos and superchargers. The CP2 is a great motor to be sure, but It's not much of a "race motor" in the normal sense. I would have thought a traditional 600CC super sport motor would have been a better choice.

Edited May 1, 2020 by topazsparrow

[2wheeldynoworks]

What a cool project! If dyno data is needed from any of the NA applications, just shoot us an email at 2wheeldynoworks@gmail.com and we'll be happy to help however we can!

Extreme Creations manufactures the popular turbo kit for these bikes, but I'm not sure how much dyno time they actually have with these machines.

 

-2WDW

[Fsae_Douglas]

4 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

I'd just get in touch directly with ExtremeCreations out of australia since they make the kit. I bet they have a ton of data on it.

On a side note, I'll be curious to see how a Ptwin holds up against similar size inline 4's with turbos and superchargers. The CP2 is a great motor to be sure, but It's not much of a "race motor" in the normal sense. I would have thought a traditional 600CC super sport motor would have been a better choice.

Thats quite right, if it wasnt for the obligatory restrictor. Today we run tha YZFR6, yamahas 600cc racing engine.

The restrictor consists of a venturi (20mm for gas, 19mm for ethanol),  all the air that goes into the engine has to pass through it. With 600cc screamers the problem is that they rev so high that they displace "too much air", we've been fine tuning the R6 for 4 years now, and the most we could get NA is around 84HP, the engine peaks at 14k RPM, but at that point the Venturi is holding back so much air that we can make much more power

The maximum flow that goes thrhough is around 4.15kg/min

R6 (@peak hp rpm)

0.0006 (displacement in M^3) * 14000 Rpm * 1,225 (air density) * 0.5 (beacuse a cycle takes 2 revs) = 5.32kg/min

 

The same formula for the peak on the MT07 (Around 8600 RPM) results in 3.73 kg/min

That way we are using all the engine has to offer, the supercharger comes to enhance the whole torque curve

I can tell you by the small data we have, it is going to be a beast! extremely competitive

 

[Fsae_Douglas]

10 hours ago, geophb said:

How are you going to spin the supercharger?  ie What is it going to be driven off of?

It is going to be directly driven by the crankshaft, with a pulley system

We are going to machine the engine cover (Flywheel side) so we have a hole that we can fit a shaft and the pulley, fit some flanges and fittings

 

 

[Fsae_Douglas]

3 hours ago, 2wheeldynoworks said:

What a cool project! If dyno data is needed from any of the NA applications, just shoot us an email at 2wheeldynoworks@gmail.com and we'll be happy to help however we can!

Absolute Champ, hahaha, i will surely hit you up

[cornerslider]

Looks like a really cool project!!! Not sure what your budget is, or what "rules" you need to follow. I just thought I should mention, that when you build the CP2 motor over about 90HP there are transmission issues. Usually it's 5th gear that fails. I know there is some machining work you can do to "cut" the gears, to get them to engage better. I haven't done it, but it's a known issue with racers that build the motors up. Maybe look around this forum a bit in the "track-talk" section. Good luck with the build!!!

[Fsae_Douglas]

12 minutes ago, cornerslider said:

Not sure what your budget is, or what "rules" you need to follow. I just thought I should mention, that when you build the CP2 motor over about 90HP there are transmission issues. Usually it's 5th gear that fails.

Nice info, i will for sure look forward to that, machining the gears wont be an issue i guess.

Maybe we will run custom gears as well, haha. Who knows, sky is the limit!

[Cruizin]

8 hours ago, Fsae_Douglas said:

Nice info, i will for sure look forward to that, machining the gears wont be an issue i guess.

Maybe we will run custom gears as well, haha. Who knows, sky is the limit!

Please keep us informed along the way, we wanna see what you come up with!

[GracieJiuJitsuFZ07]

Any updates on this project?