ECU Flashing on a stock bike?

[GoldenMT07]

I just picked up a 21 FZ-07 and been reading through the forums and ECU Flashing is often a topic to increase performance, specifically when modifying the exhaust. My question is would it be worth it on a 100% stock bike? Some vendors offer to re-flash for free as you upgrade your bike so it doesn't seem like there is much risk by having the ECU flashed before the upgrades. Will I even notice a difference on a stock bike?

 

[DewMan]

Yes

[Triple Jim]

If you do it I'll be very interested in your average MPG before and after.  My 2020 has a solid 200 mile range stock, and I wouldn't want to reduce that!  It also doesn't show any symptoms that would make me think of altering the fueling.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Triple Jim

[Pursuvant]

1 hour ago, Triple Jim said:

doesn't show any symptoms that would make me think of altering the fueling.

Here's something might change your mind. Install fresh set of plugs, immediately run the bike down the freeway 5th gear at 5K rpm. 

After steady constant run for 30 minutes, hit kill switch, pull in the clutch and roll throttle off, and turn off ignition. Right there on the side of the freeway, pull the plugs and read them (have a rag to stuff in the cylinder head opening to keep cold air from flooding cylinder).

Olden tymes way to check midrange (needle jet diameter fueling on a carb bike). You could check main jet too, run higher rpm.

Now I don't really expect anybody is going to do a plug check on the side of the freeway, but we did it in olden tymes a lot, because we were stupid and pulled stock airbox, slapped on pod filters and a header, with no affordable access to any dyno....

So we spent all summer rejetting our bikes, trying to fix lean spot in one range and fat spot in another.

I love ECU and fuel injection, and internet access to fuel and timing maps that the dyno guys have been fine tuning for an fz-07 motor for years before he mails it to me

 

 

[Triple Jim]

23 minutes ago, Pursuvant said:

Here's something might change your mind.

I'm familiar with doing a "plug chop", but what do you suggest is to be gained by doing something like making the midrange richer if there are no problems now, like burbling, hesitation, running hot, pinging, etc.?  It's almost certain that adding more fuel in the midrange will reduce MPG.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Triple Jim

[FZ not MT]

20 minutes ago, Pursuvant said:

Here's something might change your mind. Install fresh set of plugs, immediately run the bike down the freeway 5th gear at 5K rpm. 

After steady constant run for 30 minutes, hit kill switch, pull in the clutch and roll throttle off, and turn off ignition. Right there on the side of the freeway, pull the plugs and read them (have a rag to stuff in the cylinder head opening to keep cold air from flooding cylinder).

Olden tymes way to check midrange (needle jet diameter fueling on a carb bike). You could check main jet too, run higher rpm.

Now I don't really expect anybody is going to do a plug check on the side of the freeway, but we did it in olden tymes a lot, because we were stupid and pulled stock airbox, slapped on pod filters and a header, with no affordable access to any dyno....

So we spent all summer rejetting our bikes, trying to fix lean spot in one range and fat spot in another.

What's a "carb"???

Man, you be old dude

This coming from the guy whose FZ-07 is the first fuel injected bike I've owned out of the 50 or so bikes I've had.

 

[Pursuvant]

14 hours ago, Triple Jim said:

what do you suggest is to be gained

If the plug was "dry" giving up some real evidence of being lean, it might shift your perspective from focus on high mileage? Or not, either way no harm.

But my 2019 bike was lean, you could feel that motor wanted to make more power.

EDIT

WRONG And anybody who got a good map from 2wdw or other, got more power WRONG

CORRECTION Anybody who got a Yoshimura R77 map and ran it with snorkle pulled & stock exhaust got more power. That's what I tested, not the 2wdw "stock exhaust" flash.

END EDIT with apology for bad reporting of what I specifically tested for 2 weeks.

And changed the rpm where the engine runs most efficient.

Would it not be interesting, if the bike with flash ran more efficiently at a higher speed than stock - and you could get where you're going in less time, burning the same fuel?

All just me blathering, but what's not blather is that bike is held back by timing and fuel - flash will fix that and the seat of your pants will feel it.

If you care about performance over mileage. If it's your econo commuter, peace & prosper

Edited April 18, 2021 by Pursuvant
I didn't test 2wdw "stock bike" flash

[seven]

On 4/16/2021 at 7:04 PM, GoldenMT07 said:

Will I even notice a difference on a stock bike?

I didn't. Maybe if I rode it immediately before the flash and then right after but from one day to the next I could not really feel the difference. I suspect my butt dyno is just not as calibrated as others on here.

[Pursuvant]

9 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

my 2019 bike was lean, you could feel that motor wanted to make more power

All just me blathering

 

8 hours ago, seven said:

 I could not really feel the difference.

I'm wrong, if you got a "stock pipe" flash and no diff, then that's it.

Hard to imagine 2wdw didn't fix fan on/off & the throttle cut/decel. Or is that all they did?

I ran a 2wdw flash for a Yoshimura R77 for two weeks with stock pipe & snorkel pulled. And that motor loved it, even more when R77 went on.

If 2wdw didn't do a performance tune in their "stock pipe" map, it's because biz wise they chose not to. The bike could take it.

I defer to you @seven because you tested the beans & you know

[FZ not MT]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:04 PM, GoldenMT07 said:

Will I even notice a difference on a stock bike?

From my experience, all I can say is....  ABSOLUTELY

I knew within 1/2 block that I was riding a bike with a completely different motor. My bike is a 2016 FZ-07 which still has the stock exhaust plus the snorkel removed, and was tuned for that combo by 2WDW.

All the twitchy/jerky power delivery was gone, as well as being amazingly smooth. 50% of the engine braking was gone. The fan now kicks in at 201 degrees. Overall it feels like it has more power.

Since then, I've added the OEM R6 throttle tube and changed gearing adding one tooth to the rear sprocket (16/44). I've been riding it like this for 10,000 miles. Every time I ride my FZ-07, I get a smile on my face as it's the perfect do-all street bike for me. It's got plenty enough power to be seriously stupid, but not so much so that (hopefully) I'm not going to either kill myself or lose my license for life as I would on a R1. I have gone over 500 miles in a day multiple times, but at the same time it's way good enough on the twisties.

Did I mention that the power delivery is amazingly smooth and very punchy?

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by FZ not MT

[Triple Jim]

9 minutes ago, FZ not MT said:

The fan now kicks in at 201 degrees.

When did it come on before?

[FZ not MT]

215 if I remember correctly - maybe 212

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by FZ not MT

[Triple Jim]

34 minutes ago, FZ not MT said:

215 if I remember correctly - maybe 212

 

I wonder why they decided to lower it.

[Pursuvant]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:42 PM, DewMan said:

Yes

 

16 hours ago, seven said:

I didn't

 

1 hour ago, FZ not MT said:

From my experience, all I can say is....  ABSOLUTELY ">

 

We seem to be on the "horns of an enema" or dilemma, or something.

This is going to be about as productive as a "which oil" thread

[seven]

8 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

 

I'm wrong, if you got a "stock pipe" flash and no diff, then that's it.

Hard to imagine 2wdw didn't fix fan on/off & the throttle cut/decel. Or is that all they did?

I ran a 2wdw flash for a Yoshimura R77 for two weeks with stock pipe & snorkel pulled. And that motor loved it, even more when R77 went on.

If 2wdw didn't do a performance tune in their "stock pipe" map, it's because biz wise they chose not to. The bike could take it.

I defer to you @seven because you tested the beans & you know

 

1 hour ago, FZ not MT said:

From my experience, all I can say is....  ABSOLUTELY

I knew within 1/2 block that I was riding a bike with a completely different motor. My bike is a 2016 FZ-07 which still has the stock exhaust plus the snorkel removed, and was tuned for that combo by 2WDW.

All the twitchy/jerky power delivery was gone, as well as being amazingly smooth. 50% of the engine braking was gone. The fan now kicks in at 201 degrees. Overall it feels like it has more power.

Since then, I've added the OEM R6 throttle tube and changed gearing adding one tooth to the rear sprocket (16/44). I've been riding it like this for 10,000 miles. Every time I ride my FZ-07, I get a smile on my face as it's the perfect do-all street bike for me. It's got plenty enough power to be seriously stupid, but not so much so that (hopefully) I'm not going to either kill myself or lose my license for life as I would on a R1. I have gone over 500 miles in a day multiple times, but at the same time it's way good enough on the twisties.

Did I mention that the power delivery is amazingly smooth and very punchy?

 

So I guess I should clarify a bit. Yes the fan on off temps changed and are for sure better and the decel is less but I can't feel any appreciable difference in power delivery. Based on how everyone here raved about the huge improvements to the bike maybe my expectations were skewed. I was actually worried that the change to the decel was going to be too severe and as such I actually messaged 2wdw and said I was not sure if the tune fun took hold because there was still noticeable engine braking. Again based on comments like "the excessive engine braking is completely gone". So I was expecting that the bike would basically feel like I pulled in the clutch when I was just closing the throttle. So I am happy that there is plenty of engine braking still.

But the throttle is still twitchy, maybe it is less but it is hard to tell as I have ridden the bike 2 or 3 times in the past few weeks and before that it was last year that I rode. So maybe as I get more miles on the bike and I shake off the rust I will tune in and realize that the tuning is significant. 

As for mods that would affect the tune I also have stock exhaust and air filter, snorkel removed and I always use 91 octane (even before the tune).

So yeah, maybe it is just my lack of riding experience (I have put 3500km total on my bike with only 100km after the tune) and my tendency to have meat hands that makes the experience pretty muted.

So yes you can feel some differences like the fans and some decel reduction but I do not yet feel the power deliver changes.

Maybe after a few weeks of riding I can switch back to a full stock like tune and then report back. But those of you that do have to wait days or weeks to ride I don't know how you tell the difference.

[Pursuvant]

Maybe we can hijack this thread onto a really important mod, like I was looking at the throttle body vacuum lines and I bet I could run a new vacuum line up under the seat to suck my farts out 

[FZ not MT]

... or maybe my EBC HH front brake pads with the Speigler SS brake lines, and EBC HH rear brake pads with fresh fluid front and back. Definitely not as cool as my flash, but pretty cool nonetheless

[FZ not MT]

39 minutes ago, seven said:

But those of you that do have to wait days or weeks to ride I don't know how you tell the difference.

Gotta tell you Seven, the more I read threads like this and that other one with the throttle tube mods, it makes me wonder if the factory tune on the early models was just crap. Mine was a 2016, and dead serious, that flash made a huge difference.

I said in an earlier thread, that I test rode a 2020 XSR700, and it was pretty smooth. It wasn't as punchy as mine, but then I have the OEM R6 tube and the slight gearing change which I am sure helped mine having a bit more punch. I went on about a 10 mile test ride, and it's smoothness really got my attention. Yamaha must be doing something different with the mapping. Now the screwed up part is that I talked with 2WDW, and they told me the are using the same mapping on my bike as they are on the new MT-07's.

 

[DewMan]

OP asked "Will I even notice a difference on a stock bike?"  He didnt ask if it would make more power.

To that I said "Yes".

You will notice smoother power delivery, you will lose deceleration choppiness. The bike will be more forgiving with just off idle throttle adjustments. 

The factory tune is to meet EPA regulations, not to make the best use of the power available to the motor. A 2WDW tune is not going to turn the bike into an instant race bike. It does make it a much more enjoyable bike though with or without any modifications.