ECU flash questions for Yamaha FZ07

[XATTILAX]

Ok so I want to get my ECU tuned from 2wheel2drive for my yamaha fz07 really I just want to adjust the air to fuel ratio and to make the bike run smoother in general and to make sure everything is running good with my akrapovic full titanium exhaust! 

I have some questions------>>>>>

-People are saying to remove the snorkel is it fine if I leave it in after the tune, should i take it out, and what does it do if i remove it?

-People also say that the O2 sensor should be removed is it okay if i leave it in after I get my ecu flashed, what will happen if i leave it in, what will happen if I take it out?

-People also say that you  need to block  or remove the AIS/PAIR system the stock air injection system. Is it fine if I don't cover it after the ECU flash, what will happen if i don't cover it? What will happen if I do cover it?

Edited April 20, 2021 by XATTILAX

[Nealsmo]

2WDW will tune for whatever mods you have on the bike.

They recommend removing the snorkel for more airflow and will tune accordingly.  If you don't want to I'm sure they can adjust your tune for having it in.

For example- I had them reflash my ECU last month on a stock bike with snorkel removed (O2 sensor and all emission equipment still attached).  Being that I have a stock exhaust I appreciate the extra intake noise that I got from removing the snorkel.  I will send the ECU back to them when I get an exhaust.  The only thing they charge is shipping for reflash.

[XATTILAX]

33 minutes ago, Nealsmo said:

2WDW will tune for whatever mods you have on the bike.

They recommend removing the snorkel for more airflow and will tune accordingly.  If you don't want to I'm sure they can adjust your tune for having it in.

For example- I had them reflash my ECU last month on a stock bike with snorkel removed (O2 sensor and all emission equipment still attached).  Being that I have a stock exhaust I appreciate the extra intake noise that I got from removing the snorkel.  I will send the ECU back to them when I get an exhaust.  The only thing they charge is shipping for reflash.

Ok so I have a full titanium  akropovic exhaust So what do you recommend?

Should I remove the snorkel leave the O2 censor in ? 

[Nealsmo]

I'm no expert myself, so I would recommend giving them a call (or email) to clarify best use of what you have.

[DewMan]

Contact @2wheeldynoworks directly either by phone or email. They will be more than happy to take the time to answer any and all questions you may have.

Might as well get the information straight from them to ensure accuracy.

[stickshift]

8 hours ago, XATTILAX said:

People also say that you  need to block  or remove the AIS/PAIR system the stock air injection system. Is it fine if I don't cover it after the ECU flash, what will happen if i don't cover it? What will happen if I do cover it?

These engines don't have an AIS/PAIR system.

Ask 2WDW about the O2 sensor.

You can leave the snorkel in or take it out with the their flash - you'll get a smidge more performance with it out and the extra induction noise sounds cool. Again, ask 2WDW if unsure.

[Vestal James]

Another newbie question here.  Browsing through the posts, I've read many comments about reflashing the ECU. I know what the ECU is and that reflashing has to do with modifying the engine control systems, but what exactly does a reflash do that Yamaha didn't get right in the first place? Does the ECU need reflashing periodically or only when changes are made to other engine parts, like the intake mods I see mentioned here?

[mjh937]

6 minutes ago, Vestal James said:

Another newbie question here.  Browsing through the posts, I've read many comments about reflashing the ECU. I know what the ECU is and that reflashing has to do with modifying the engine control systems, but what exactly does a reflash do that Yamaha didn't get right in the first place? Does the ECU need reflashing periodically or only when changes are made to other engine parts, like the intake mods I see mentioned here?

The stock Yamaha tune is done mostly to meet EPA and MPG requirements.  Having it flashed by an aftermarket provider will optimize it for drivability and/or power.  It only needs to be reflashed if there are major changes to the intake or exhaust.  I have a stock exhaust on my bike and the @2wheeldynoworks tune.  It made a huge improvement on power delivery and engine braking.  

[XATTILAX]

10 hours ago, Vestal James said:

Another newbie question here.  Browsing through the posts, I've read many comments about reflashing the ECU. I know what the ECU is and that reflashing has to do with modifying the engine control systems, but what exactly does a reflash do that Yamaha didn't get right in the first place? Does the ECU need reflashing periodically or only when changes are made to other engine parts, like the intake mods I see mentioned here?

It basically tunes the bike and if you get a custom exhaust it gives you the right air and fuel ratio your engine needs to work smoother, you also get smoother throttle control, engine breaking removed, custom fuel mapping, more hp, and a bunch of restrictions removed.

[Triple Jim]

Don't leave out the fact that in many cases the reflash will lower the fuel economy of a motorcycle with a 3.7 gallon tank.

[seven]

Not sure what everyone runs for fuel but here is what they said when I asked about getting a tune for 91 octane fuel:
"All of our mapping is built for 91-93 octane premium pump gas."

I exclusively run Shell V-Power 91 which has no ethanol...although I might try Husky 94 with 10% ethanol to see if there is any difference.

[Vestal James]

Based on what I've been hearing, am I correct to suppose that without exhaust and intake mods, the ECU might just as well stay as Yamaha programs it? Incidentally, I run both my bikes (and my lawn mower and snow blower) on non-ethanol fuel just to avoid the damage ethanol does to fuel systems.

[nacapster]

20 minutes ago, Vestal James said:

Based on what I've been hearing, am I correct to suppose that without exhaust and intake mods, the ECU might just as well stay as Yamaha programs it? Incidentally, I run both my bikes (and my lawn mower and snow blower) on non-ethanol fuel just to avoid the damage ethanol does to fuel systems.

IDK but my ECU is in route to 2WDW right now and my bike has a stock exhaust. From the dyno graphs I've seen, to get the most out of a tune meaning increase in peak HP & TQ #s you need an exhaust. But, just the flash and air box snorkel removed with the stock exhaust still showed a nice 3-4 HP & ft lb torque advantage over stock all through the mid-range. My main reason for wanting the flash was just to get rid of that fuel injector cut on deceleration, it makes for very aggressive engine braking and makes it hard to ride the bike smooth. The extra fuel should help the bike run cooler to as well as the fan coming on at lower temps. Oh and it removes any gear based performance restrictions. Supposedly the timing is retarded in 1st through 3rd gears or so I've read. I also have a OEM R6 throttle tube on order but I think I'm going to ride the bike with just the flash and the snorkel removed first so I know how much is the tune / snorkel and how much is just more throttle body movement from the same amount of twist at the grip. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by nacapster

[Triple Jim]

54 minutes ago, nacapster said:

I also have a OEM R6 throttle tube on order but I think I'm going to ride the bike with just the flash and the snorkel removed first so I know how much is the tune / snorkel and how much is just more throttle body movement from the same amount of twist at the grip. 

Now there's a good idea!

[Civiltechyyc]

2 hours ago, Vestal James said:

Based on what I've been hearing, am I correct to suppose that without exhaust and intake mods, the ECU might just as well stay as Yamaha programs it? Incidentally, I run both my bikes (and my lawn mower and snow blower) on non-ethanol fuel just to avoid the damage ethanol does to fuel systems.

What nacapster said basically sums it up. There's benefits to updating the stock ECU. Mines on the way to 2WDW right now too but for an Akra exhaust update. Considering people spend $300 on parts that don't give any performance, I say it's worth it to tune the stock ECU if you want more HP. Plus 2WDW will reflash it with any updates for free - you just pay return shipping. 

[stickshift]

12 hours ago, nacapster said:

Oh and it removes any gear based performance restrictions. Supposedly the timing is retarded in 1st through 3rd gears or so I've read.

There are no timing restrictions in the lower gears.

However, most tunes I've seen (and supplied with Hord's intake) add some ignition advance in the upper revs for improved performance.

[D.A.]

7 hours ago, stickshift said:

... most tunes I've seen (and supplied with Hord's intake) add some ignition advance in the upper revs ...

It’s my understanding that this is why riders need to switch from regular gasoline to premium after having their ECUs flashed. The flame speed of premium fuel is slower than that of regular gasoline and is therefore less likely to result in preignition when timing is advanced. 

Typically with motorcycles, premium fuel is associated with higher flash point and the ability to handle increased compression ratios but you can’t alter compression ratio simply by reflashing the ECU — you have to physically change the amount of compression inside the combustion chambers. 

Anyhow, this is one of the disadvantages of flashing a bike: miles per gallon is decreased while price per gallon is significantly increased. It’s the worst of both worlds. 

I am one of the few people on this forum who is not a huge fan of reflashing a stock FZ/MT. The reduction in engine braking is great, as is having the fan activate at a lower temperature. But it’s debatable whether or not there’s a noticeable increase in power. My experience was that the power curve went from being very linear pre-flash to somewhat non-linear and less predictable post-flash. And flashing did virtually nothing to reduce my bike’s twitchiness at small throttle openings  

Of course if you are installing an aftermarket exhaust system, retuning the fueling to compensate is a necessity. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by D.A.

[nacapster]

1 hour ago, D.A. said:

It’s my understanding that this is why riders need to switch from regular gasoline to premium after having their ECUs flashed. The flame speed of premium fuel is slower than that of regular gasoline and is therefore less likely to result in preignition when timing is advanced. 

Typically with motorcycles, premium fuel is associated with higher flash point and the ability to handle increased compression ratios but you can’t alter compression ratio simply by reflashing the ECU — you have to physically change the amount of compression inside the combustion chambers. 

Anyhow, this is one of the disadvantages of flashing a bike: miles per gallon is decreased while price per gallon is significantly increased. It’s the worst of both worlds. 

I am one of the few people on this forum who is not a huge fan of reflashing a stock FZ/MT. The reduction in engine braking is great, as is having the fan activate at a lower temperature. But it’s debatable whether or not there’s a noticeable increase in power. My experience was that the power curve went from being very linear pre-flash to somewhat non-linear and less predictable post-flash. And flashing did virtually nothing to reduce my bike’s twitchiness at small throttle openings  

Of course if you are installing an aftermarket exhaust system, retuning the fueling to compensate is a necessity. 

I'll take the extra cooling fuel. And the difference between regular and premium is what, 50 cents a gallon? So it will cost another buck something at each fill up. I don't mind an extra buck per fill up for a little more performance from the advanced timing. You guys should try snowmobiling, we get about 15 mpg  and premium fuel is recommended for all the high performance models. So if my bike takes premium and goes from 50 mpg to 45, not a big deal. For me the reduced engine braking alone will be worth it. I'm not expecting a night and day power increase but I'm hoping it's at least noticeable. 

[Triple Jim]

There is no advantage to running an engine at a temperature cooler than it was designed for.  Wear and efficiency both suffer when an engine is overcooled.  If an engine tends to overheat, then by all means make changes to increase the cooling capacity of the system, but I haven't heard anything about the FZ(MT)-07 having an overheating problem.  Cooler does not automatically  mean better.

[cornerslider]

7 hours ago, D.A. said:

It’s my understanding that this is why riders need to switch from regular gasoline to premium after having their ECUs flashed. The flame speed of premium fuel is slower than that of regular gasoline and is therefore less likely to result in preignition when timing is advanced. 

Typically with motorcycles, premium fuel is associated with higher flash point and the ability to handle increased compression ratios but you can’t alter compression ratio simply by reflashing the ECU — you have to physically change the amount of compression inside the combustion chambers. 

Anyhow, this is one of the disadvantages of flashing a bike: miles per gallon is decreased while price per gallon is significantly increased. It’s the worst of both worlds. 

I am one of the few people on this forum who is not a huge fan of reflashing a stock FZ/MT. The reduction in engine braking is great, as is having the fan activate at a lower temperature. But it’s debatable whether or not there’s a noticeable increase in power. My experience was that the power curve went from being very linear pre-flash to somewhat non-linear and less predictable post-flash. And flashing did virtually nothing to reduce my bike’s twitchiness at small throttle openings  

Of course if you are installing an aftermarket exhaust system, retuning the fueling to compensate is a necessity. 

I like your posts... You seem to understand fueling. I think premium fuel is a total marketing strategy. Oil corporations hope that people do not really understand what they are actually buying. Yes, there are some applications that "require" higher octane. Those instances are rare.... I am a HUGE fan of non-oxygenated fuel (no ethanol). Since I started running it in ALL non-automotive applications 15 years ago, I've had ZERO fuel problems in anything I own. That being said, I can't find regular 87 octane that is non-oxygenated??? I know for the majority of the population, that would work very well for almost every application. I'll continue to buy "premium" non-oxygenated fuel for everything non-automotive. I know my bike will run better on 87 octane. After having fuel issues with ethanol blended fuels in the past (not on the 07), I'll continue to buy fuel that is more expensive than needed for the 07. 

[FZWes]

As far as the the reflash goes from 2WDW the rep I spoke to on the phone (to the best of my recollection quoted a price of $250.+ for the reflash, and said 2-3 hp increase.) IMHO for that kind of money you better be bringing me 2%-3% increase in power. I resigned myself to the reality that our bikes are what the are as far as speed and power. If you want more speed and power buy a more powerful bike.

I've done some work on Harley's (with adult supervision) and we know what can be done there. Stage 1, cams, porting and polishing heads etc. It seems we don't have that luxury with the FZ07.

[Triple Jim]

40 minutes ago, FZWes said:

I've done some work on Harley's (with adult supervision) and we know what can be done there. Stage 1, cams, porting and polishing heads etc. It seems we don't have that luxury with the FZ07.

Yes, but we're starting out with over 1/10 hp per cc, whereas a Harley starts out with half of that.  In those terms we're probably at Stage 3.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Triple Jim

[stickshift]

1 hour ago, FZWes said:

 I resigned myself to the reality that our bikes are what the are as far as speed and power. If you want more speed and power buy a more powerful bike.

As always, it comes down to what you're objective is and how much $$ you want to spend.

The top race 07s are putting out 90+ hp at the back wheel, nearly 40% up on stock.

You can get an easy 10hp with Hord's intake, exhaust and ECU tune (or power commander).

[nacapster]

Got my ECU back today, mailed it in last Tuesday so less than a week turn around. Just went for a quick 14 mile rip and oh hell yeah it makes a difference! Just rolling on the throttle in first gear the front end comes right up, it didn’t do that before. It’s even coming up a little bit in second gear, about what it used to do in first. And this is with no clutch and no yanking the bars. The bike is noticeably quicker. And the reduced engine braking is really nice. The bike is so much smoother and easier to ride. Oh, and the extra intake noise is nice and throaty. The 2WDW flash was worth every penny and that is my only mod at this point, well that and yanking the air box snorkel. My OEM R6 throttle tube is still in my brief case. I wanted to know how much was the tune / intake mod and how much was just being deeper into the throttle with the same amount of twist at the grip.

Edited May 4, 2021 by nacapster

[D.A.]

14 hours ago, nacapster said:

...hell yeah it makes a difference! Just rolling on the throttle in first gear the front end comes right up, it didn’t do that before. It’s even coming up a little bit in second gear...

I’m genuinely glad this worked out well for you! 

I had hoped to feel that way too after I had my ECU flashed by 2WDW. But that did not happen. Post-flash, I noticed the decrease in engine braking and that the fan came on at a lower temperature but I did not detect any improvement in performance.

Reading your description makes me wonder if the discrepancy in our results is due to a difference in how our bikes ran prior to having them flashed.

Before buying an FZ-07, I had spent several years riding the second of two ZX-10Rs I have owned. At the time, I was looking for a more street-friendly daily rider to add to the stable, hoping for something fun to ride, easy to work on and inexpensive to own. And a used FZ-07 seemed to fit the bill. 

When I climbed aboard the FZ for the initial test ride, I honestly wasn’t expecting much in terms of performance. I assumed it would pale in comparison to my Kawasaki liter-bikes. And I was fine with that.

I pulled the FZ out onto the street in first gear, twisted the throttle in what I thought was a casual manner and Bam! the front wheel abruptly jolted about a foot and a half off the ground. As the wheel came down I accelerated a bit, shifted up to second gear, let out the clutch and once again Bam! the front wheel lifted up about a foot. Wow, was I surprised!

That was all the test ride I needed! I immediately went back and bought the machine. 

As time went on, the only complaint I had about the FZ was how twitchy it seemed at small throttle openings. I set out on a quest to rectify that issue and that’s what led me to 2WDW. However, contrary to their claims, the flash did not noticeably reduce twitchiness (nor increase power) on my bike, and reading your post makes me think that’s because my FZ was already running really well to begin with — so maybe there’s wasn’t much room for improvement. And I can’t explain why. I bought the bike used and the previous owner — who bought it new — swears he did nothing to it other than install a fender eliminator. 

This discussion made me recall a similar anecdote:

Shortly after I joined this forum 18 months ago, another member exuberantly wrote that his FZ ran like a raped ape after 2WDW flashed it. And I remember thinking, “That’s exactly how my bike runs now, and it’s completely stock!”

I don’t know what the opposite of a Lemon is but perhaps that’s what I bought. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by D.A.