Ohlins fork cartridge vs. Andreani fitment?

[jjmaine]

Hey guys, I’m new here and joined for maybe an odd reason.  I have an Fz6r and the only fork cartridge kit available for my bike was the Andreani kit for the Yamaha Xj-6 so I picked one up.  
 

I had talked to Traxxion about using their Ar-25 damper rods but they said they wont fit because the fz6r uses Soqi forks while most other Yamaha’s use kyb forks and the same would go for the cartridge kits.  
 

My thinking is, if I buy an Ohlins kit for the Mt-07, if the forks are the same diameter (41mm), the top caps are the same thread and the forks are the same length with same travel, why wouldn’t the cartridge kit be interchangeable?

Like I said, I grabbed the Andreani kit from the UK but I am wondering if anyone has an Ohlins fork kit for their Fz/Mt07 that we might be able to compare?  I will try the Andreani’s and if they work well that’s great but I have the Ohlins Nix22’s in my Ninja 300 forks and those work amazing and the build quality is certainly much higher than Andreani’s…. If I can figure out if the Ohlins kit will fit I may swap to it in the future.

No shocks available for my bike either so I ordered a Nitron for an Xj-6 and it works pretty well…  Thanks for the help!

 

I’ve been reading up on Pattonme’s Andreani mods as well so thats an option…

 

[jjmaine]

Does anyone have an Ohlins kit, that we might be able to compare the relevant specs to see if they would work for the Fz6r?

 Fwiw, the Andreani kits for the Fz07 and Xj-6 (Fz6r) have different part numbers…

[union]

Would have to make sure the bolt at the bottom of the fork is the same too.  I don't have the Ohlins kit.  I've seen them back when I worked in a suspension shop.  At that point they were very different then the Andreani kit.  To fit the Andreani kit you had to modify your inner tubes.  The Ohlin's kit was a straight drop in with no modification.  It's been a couple years since so maybe things have changed.  FWIW I put the Andreani kit in my bike.

[jjmaine]

I figure it would be possible to use whichever thread/pitch bolt the cart. kit requires for the bottom.  And my experience I think will be the same as yours, the Ohlins was made to drop in and the Andreani should require modification to the forks (I’ll know for sure by next weekend).  Not sure why Andreani does use the same design as Ohlins for their cartridges (slender at the bottom so they fit through the fork tubes)?  
 

How do you think the Andreani compares to the Ohlins?  Thanks!

[jjmaine]

Sorry, I read your post wrong, I thought you had said you used the Ohlins before…

[union]

For the bottom it is not just the tread pitch.  It is also the bolt diameter.  Some use M8 some use M10 and some use some really odd specialty bolts.

 

I've used ohlins on other bikes but not on this.  Ohlins has that piece at the bottom that looks like a long spacer.  That is what makes those drop in without the need to modify the bottom of the fork tube.  The Andreani doesn't do that.  It looks more like a typical cartridge.  At the razors edge I don't know which is better.  I am not riding my bike that hard on the street where I would be able to figure it out.  I chose the Andreani for my bike for two reasons.  It's a complete kit.  With the Ohlins you still need to buy the springs.  Second we had good results with them on other MTs that were ridden much harder then what I was going to do so I knew they were more then capable.

Here is my build.  A few posts down you can see where we put the fork legs in the lathe and milled out the bottom.

 

 

[jjmaine]

Good point on the bolt diameter.  Yeah the Ohlins cartridges are slender on the bottom so they fit down through the fork internals.  The way Andreani makes theirs must be more cost effective.  It sounds like the Andreani will work just as well for me on the street so I guess it doesn’t matter.  I was just concerned about the compression damping being to stiff like others have experienced?

Sweet build by the way!

[jjmaine]

Took my forks apart today and it turns out I did have to remove the guts from the bottom of the fork tubes.  
 

One thing I never thought to buy is new fork bushings.  My bike has low miles so I assumed they would be fine but I am wondering if “slide hammering” the forks apart damages the bushings at all?

 

They look fine but there are some slight burrs around the edges I think where they made contact with each other when I was taking them apart. Should I just clean those up with some fine sandpaper or just leave them and run them?  I’m going to order some this weekend to have on hand next time I take the forks apart…

 

Union, did you reuse your bushings when you installed your cartridges?  Thanks for the help!  The Fz6r forum is dead, if I post there its crickets….

[union]

I always put new ones in.  I also worked in a suspension shop so it was cheaper for me.  You don't have to replace if they are in good shape.  Many customer bikes we reused bushings if they were in good shape.  Saves them a few bucks.  Some burring I would be likely to replace.  I would prefer to not have to go back into the forks just to replace those later on.

[jjmaine]

I was going to run them for now but when I put the second fork together I forgot to put the washer in that sits between the bushing and the fork seal.  When I popped the fork back out to install it, the fork tube pulled right through the upper bushing and fork seal (I’m guessing because the washer wasnt there).  Thankfully it had pulled the bushing off its seat a little so I was able to get it and the fork seal out easily but it scored the bushing on the fork tube.  They were slightly worn with the copper starting to show in a couple spots even after only 8,500 miles so I dont mind replacing them.  

I ordered a set of All Balls bushings (not my first choice) overnight on amazon prime.  The oem bushings arent in stock anywhere so it would take 7-10 days for me to get them.  I’ll have some oem on hand the next time I have my forks apart.  I wont forget that washer again!

 

 

[jjmaine]

Fork bushings were waiting for me when I got home from work so I slapped my forks back together with the Andreani’s.  One more quick question for you Union if I can?

I installed them by the instructions (better yet, by all of the threads of read on how to install them) and turned the reb. and comp. adjusters 4 turns clockwise from full ccw before installing the caps and hand tightening them onto the shaft until the lightly seated and then tightened the bottom nut up onto the cap.  Now I have no adjustment past 4 turns clockwise (from fully open) is this correct?  So 2 turns would be my halfway point?  For some reason I thought this would make 4 turns my halfway point but 4 turns clockwise is now full damping?

 

Sorry this might be confusing but I want to be sure I did them right before I put them on the bike.  Ohlins was so much easier!!!  Thanks again man!

 

[mjh937]

@jjmaine, just FYI, if you put an “at” sign before a members name, like @union he will get a notification that he has been mentioned in a post (like you did in your last post).  It is better than just hoping he eventually sees it  .  Good luck with the suspension upgrade, it is interesting to see what you are doing. 

[jjmaine]

Thank you mjh!  I did not know that was possible.   Suspension is one thing this bike was in need of big time!  I’m sure it will be a huge improvement once I can get it somewhat dialed in.

[union]

4 Turns sounds right.  I had to go look at mine to remember.  Before you assemble you go in 4 turns clockwise.  The adjuster should be close to even with the cap.  2 Turns counter-clockwise would be your 1/2 way.  These caps don't click so think of each full turn about 4 clicks.  The Ohlins isn't necessarily easier.  If I remember correctly you don't have to set the cap at install because of the internal design difference.

[jjmaine]

Thanks!  I had a thought that since 4 turns almost had me tighten down to the nut all the way anyway…. Next time I have to put it back together I’ll just back off the adjusters and tighten the cap down to the nut.  May lose a hair of adjustment but at least it wont be pushing the adjustment needle (or whatever its called) into its seat.  
 

[twf]

3-4 turns is good, after 3 turns out needle is not doing anything anymore anyway. It is fully open. Procedure is to set number of turns you want and then tighten until you feel resistance (needle fully closed). From there you bring nut up and hand tighten, back out adjuster 1/2 turn and tighten with wrenches. That way you not tightening needle against seat. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by twf

[jjmaine]

Okay that seems like a good way of doing it thanks!  Andreani’s instructions were not the best

[jjmaine]

I just took the bike for a quick ride and the only way to describe the forks at this point is harsh lol.  Compression is at only 1/2 turn in from full open and rebound is at 1 1/2 turns.  I’m not too worried because I know there are ways to make these more “plush” for the street.  Probably end up starting with thinner oil in the comp leg first and see where that gets me.

I could literally feel every tiny rock underneath the grass on my lawn when I pulled back into my shop lol.  Going to check sag and see if these springs are correct.  I’m about 175lbs and they sent me 8.8 springs.  Did you guys find these cartridges pretty stiff for the street?  I know that has been others experience with them.  On the other hand, I tend to like my suspension set on the softer side for comfort…

On the lookout for a cheap Fz/Mt07 that I can work on over the winter.  Theres a 2020 Mt07 with 17,000 miles for $4100 obo near me but the motor has a “knock”.  Not sure I would pay that much for something that needs who knows how much engine work but it’s hard to find one of these bikes in my area (Maine) for under $6k.  Even the older Fz’s.  I guess that speaks to how good of bikes they are.  Once the snow flies the proces will drop though . Maybe someday I’ll actually belong here!

 

Thanks for all the help though, I really appreciate it!

[twf]

What oil you using and what air gap?

Springs should be fine for you

 

[union]

They are going to be a bit stiffer then the garbage yamaha puts on them.  Thicker oil is not the way to go in a cartridge setup.  It works in damper rod forks because the holes the oil flows through are not controlled like with a piston/shim stack you have now.  I don't recall if we put 5wt or 2.5wt oil in mine.  Pretty sure it was 5wt.  Generally we would put the lightest oil in we could.  The shim stack is then used to control the flow of oil.  In some cases shims have to be removed and in others they need to be added.  The track guys usually have a stiffer shim stack since they are hitting the brakes harder and getting on the gas quicker at higher speeds.  In my case we didn't mess with the shim stack at all.

 

Another thing to consider.  Did you change the shock out as well?  If not what youre feeling can be coming from the rear.  As the front hits the bumps the rear is just there bouncing around so the front is doing all the work.

 

As suggested above check your air gap.  Too much oil will definitely cause a harsh ride.  Try turning your adjusters and pushing on the forks.  You should feel a difference between open and closed.

 

I'd offer up a ride on my bike if you're not too far away.  I'm not much of a distance rider anymore.  I'm in MA.

[jjmaine]

I used 5 weight Maxima fork fluid which is pretty low cst if I recall (the reason I chose it).  I just checked sag quickly and it looks like the springs will be fine.  May need to add a bit of preload actually.  I’ll check them for real this weekend.

I was expecting them to be stiffer, absolutely but these are pretty harsh.  Obviously early days and I know it can be worked out so I’m not worried.  I have a Nitron R1 shock as well and the front is not balanced with the rear, not even close.  I will try to stiffen the rear up to balance it a little.

Another thing, I might need to pull the forks up in the triples a bit to lower the front.  The shock had added a few mm of ride height which I liked but now with the front sitting MUCH higher it rides like a cruiser lol.  By next spring I’m sure I’ll have it sorted.

 

To answer your questions twf, I’m using 5 weight oil and the 100mm air gap that Andreani recommended on the label.  The oil I am using is a lower cst than the Ohlins fluid they recommended as well.

 

[jjmaine]

Is the belray 2.5w “shock” oil the one that guys are using for their comp. leg?  I have read many recommend 2.5w Belray but can only find the shock oil.  Guessing its all the same stuff…?

Oh and the adjusters def. work well.  Feel a big difference in both legs between open and closed.

Edited October 3, 2023 by jjmaine

[twf]

Why is front sitting much higher? Did cartridge extend forks?

I would use a lot more of air gap with those. More like 150 or so.

[jjmaine]

The front sagged a lot with the stock springs and I never even bothered to check or set my sag front or rear with the stock stuff because I knew I would be changing everything.  It was so soft that the front of the bike would dive heavily when I applied even a little REAR brake.

 

I’ll experiment with the air gap and try 150mm, thanks!  That could be half my problem.

[union]

I don't exactly remember what we did for air gap.  Most stuff we set up with a 120-130mm air gap.  There were many factors to it but the biggest was how the bike was going to be used.

 

As for the Ohlins oil.  I can't say for 100% certainty but if it was called for then we used it.  I do recall Andreani being an ohlins design.  In our experience Ohlins stuff only works properly with Ohlins oil.  No idea what kind of voodoo they put in it.  I suppose I could open up the cap and give it a sniff test.  Their stuff has a unique smell.