jjmaine Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) I used Motul in my Ninja 300’s Ohlins carts and it works great. That completely transformed the forks in a good way. Cannot say the same for these but I’m sure with some fettling they will get there. I think I was spoiled with the Ohlins, just put them in and enjoy lol Ohlins werent an option for me or I would have gottem them. Traxxion offered to put a set of their carts in my forks but I would have had to send them in and those are $1500. They offered to install them for free since they didn’t know the specs on my forks so they couldnt just send me my own kit but the shipping back and forth alone would have stung I’m sure… Edited October 3, 2023 by jjmaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Stock springs in that bike looks to be .90 so it is not sitting higher due to spring rate. It felt soft because there was no damping. But damping does not make bike sit higher or lower. I wonder if those cartridges extended forks since they are for different bike. If you have not measured before taking them apart you could stack up old parts next to the fork and see if length changed. Maxima 5 is fine. I run Maxima in all my forks and all Öhlins forks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 Will do thanks! That may very well be the case. I just assumed that they should have stayed the same and never thought to check before hand. Another thing is that this kit is actually for the Euro version of my bike, the Xj-6 Diversion but I have been told and think it’s true that they have the exact same forks. It sure looks like the exact same bike just a different name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 Does the air gap affect sag? Not sure what I was doing before but it looks to have roughly an inch of static sag but if I just sit on the bike normally the forks dont compress at all from my weight. The rear compresses and the front stays right where it is with only static sag? Pumping the forks after I put them together they felt smooth but now they feel a bit sticky on the bike. I would think if the springs were too stiff the forks would want to spring back to fully extended… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Did you have fork fully compressed when measuring air gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 Yep fully compressed. I’m wondering if the forks arent binding. Maybe those bushings dont agree with my forks? With my oem (8,000 mile) bushings the forks had a decent amount of play but not what I would call excessive by any means. With the All Balls, there was essentially zero play even with the fork tube pulled out extended all the way. Maybe there isn’t enough clearance to allow for any error in alignment like there was with the oem bushings? They worked smooth off the bike when pushing down on them but its almost like I have to pull up on the handlebars to extend the forks back out …. Going to investigate more this week but I might end up putting the old bushings back in when I reset the air gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 You can measure stiction. Also it is upright sitting bike so you may not putting weight on the forks when checking sag. If shock is soft it will sag on rear first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
union Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 It is possible they are misaligned. You can check easy. With the wheel off put the axle in and see if it spins freely. If not adjust one side until it dose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 The axle does spin freely, I made sure before I put the tire on. Maybe the seals just need some time to smooth out. I tend to jump to conclusions sometimes and work myself up to be honest lol. I have ordered some new oem bushings as I really dont like using All Balls stuff besides their master cylinder rebuild kits. I’ve had problems with almost all of their other products it seems. Its weird, sometimes I’ll sit on the bike to check sag and it wont budge and then I’ll try again and get some sag. Seals are new oem but have read that they will often have some stiction until you get a few miles on them. Installed them with fork seal grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 I think step one is to reset my oil level and see if that will give me more sag. I read that changing air gap will essentially affect spring rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 Pulled the forks back off tonight and reset the oil level to 150mm. I’m kind of stumped though because theres no way I pulled 50mm worth of oil out of those tubes (I set it originally to 100mm or so I thought). I have one of the tools that you use to set oil level and it was most def. set to 100mm before I changed it to 150 tonight. Maybe I didnt bleed the carts correctly? I filled the forks with oil and pumped the carts up and down at least 40 times. They had stopped making noise after about 10 pumps but I kept going. Not sure if its in my head but the forks feel softer to me just pumping them up and down by hand… I’ll get them re installed tomorrow hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
union Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 With a larger air gap the forks will be softer feeling. You have increased the size of the air spring which compresses in a progressive manner. The smaller it gets the stiffer the rate. Some cartridges are tough to bleed. I don't recall these ones being hard. You should get some fluid coming up through. With the rebound being on one side and the compression being the other they will feel different in the process. Some times a short quick motion will he open up the shim stack to get all the air out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M, Hausknecht Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 The air gap only matters within the last inch or less of travel, unless you have very much too much oil in the forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 Thanks guys! I took it for a ride today and it is much better with 150mm air gap. I’m sure some of the problem I was having getting consistent sag numbers was just the stiction from new seals as Union mentioned but I can say with the larger air gap I have quite a bit more sag (have not measured or set it yet) and the forks feel much more “plush” pushing them by hand and when riding. On the ride today, I notice that the forks dont feel harsh really but when I hit a raised bump in the road the front end sharply springs up but is soft when landing if that makes sense? I have no clue how to accurately describe what I am feeling so I do the best I can. My settings are 5w Maxima fork fluid, 150mm air gap, comp at .5 turns in from full soft and reb. at 1.5 turns in. Any idea what I might try to settle the front so it rolls over the bumps better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) Union, do you take the adjuster rods out of the carts when bleeding until fluid comes through the top? I left them in the whole time and just bled until I thought I had them. Really going off memory from the Ohlins carts I installed because Andreani’s instructions are terrible lol Not having them bled properly might explain why they felt so bad at first and why I didn’t pull as much oil out as I though as well….. Not sure what a cartridge feels like with air in it… Edited October 5, 2023 by jjmaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 You should not set adjusters from fully soft. Do it from fully hard. Put compression 2-2.5 turns out and rebound 1.5 turns out. They will bleed out themself soonest you go riding, only reason to do on bench is to set oil level. If the bumps are still harsh you may need to change shim stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 Ok sounds good thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 It seems the All Balls bushings have scratched my tubes. I can only say that they had no scratches when I put them together and now after only 100 miles the tubes have scratches on them. The worse of it is in the photos and I can barely feel it with my fingernail. The only wear or marks present before the All Balls bushings was a light polished looking spot on each fork leg. Now both have scratches. I cleaned everything thoroughly in hot soapy water to make sure I got any metal or dirt of them after removing the bushings. Not sure what to do now? Run them until they leak? I’d hate to put brand new bushings in (as well as the new seals that are already on them) just to have to take it all back out and replace with new tubes, bushings and seals. They werent leaking, I just noticed the scratching and took them apart… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
union Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 You can try to polish it out with a 600 or 1200 grit paper. At the very least it will get the sharp edges off and may later longer before leaking. I've seen worse then that last but it was also on a track bike. I don't know what your access to tools is but this is where a lathe and a squirt of wd40 is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 Thanks! No lathe unfortunately. I might try some really fine sand paper on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 How would I go about changing the valving in the comp leg? It looks like Pattonme hasnt been active in years and I know he offered a kit for these cartrdiges to help with the compression damping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
union Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 5 hours ago, jjmaine said: How would I go about changing the valving in the comp leg? It looks like Pattonme hasnt been active in years and I know he offered a kit for these cartrdiges to help with the compression damping. You have to pull the cartridge apart. Then take the valve off the rod. At that point you either add or take off shims depending on what you're looking to do. This part is best left to someone that knows what they are doing. I would watch the guy that owned the shop I work at do this. It's detailed work and it is pretty easy to mess up. A simple pinched shim or small piece of debris can lead to pretty much 0 compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 Yeah I def. dont want to mess anything up. I will try some thinner oil in the comp side before I do anything too drastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M, Hausknecht Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 If the compression damping is too harsh, before embarking on the hassle of revalving, try lighter weight fork oil in the compression fork. The Ohlins Nix22 cartridges are also a bit too harsh on compression and going with 2.5 weight oil addressed the issue for me (5 wt is recommended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmaine Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 Thats good to hear, thanks! I have some on order to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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