Clutch engages late

[ericpev]

Maybe it's just in comparison to the Bonnie I upgraded from but I feel as though my clutch engages late. I have to let out about 70% I would say. I haven't adjusted anything since I brought her home. Is this the same with you guys. If not, is it an easy adjustment?

[crazycracka501]

Yea, it is a thing I noticed too, but adjustable clutch leavers fix that quickly and you can get them pretty cheap on ebay.

[ericpev]

I do need to get me some adjustable levers soon haha. I've just been surprised at how long the clutch travel is

[rick]

Clutch engagement on this bike is a bit short, imo. Meaning there's little lever travel between where it 1st starts to drag and where it's fully let out. You can adjust the cable a bit for more slack if you find your hand well out there. Just don't give it so much slack it doesn't shift well or it becomes hard to find neutral.

[ericpev]

I've definitely heard what you're talking about rick. My issue is more that there's too much travel before it starts to drag at all

[rick]

Oh, well that's easy. Turn the barrel adjuster where the cable goes into the lever.
 
There is a spec in the owner's manual for some distance that the lever will travel from fully let out to just getting tension. Dunno what that is, but as long as there's some play in the cable when the lever is full out, it'll be OK.

[ericpev]

Will that help bring the friction zone closer? It seems to me that there's already enough free play

[crazycracka501]

I tried that rick, unfortunately on my bike, by the time I am able to get a comfortable friction zone and full release, the adjustment has made the clutch handle too loose and it rattles loosely back and forth. I realized that I have to get adjustable handles to fix the issue.

[rick]

Sorry, you guys are trying to get the engagement point closer to the bar. I sorta read you wanted to go the other way to move the engagement point further out. You could bring it closer by adding slack to the cable. But you'd decrease the throw of the clutch and shifting would definitely suffer. You might even find that the clutch drags a bit and the bike will want to roll with the clutch pulled while in gear.
 
So yeah, time for levers with an adjustable reach.

[ericpev]

Thanks for the response rick. Thats exactly the issue and I was wondering if something could be done from the engine side about it. Really just wanted to know if this is how everyone's is and this is just a characteristic of our bikes or if there is a way to remedy this (besides new levers haha)

[fzhooligan]

mine feels okay. Apparently if you check the freeplay on the lever, as in pulling the lever and feeling where it actually begins to pull the cable, you should be able to fit the back (plastic part) of your key in the gap.
 
I don't know if I described it correctly, but it worked for me.

[rick]

Thanks for the response rick. Thats exactly the issue and I was wondering if something could be done from the engine side about it. Really just wanted to know if this is how everyone's is and this is just a characteristic of our bikes or if there is a way to remedy this (besides new levers haha)

It all winds up being how far the lever can pull the cable and how far the cable needs to be pulled to properly operate the clutch. Keep in mind, there has to be some play in the cable when the lever is completely released. If you monkey with the lever at the case you can take play out of the cable there and add it back at the lever, but that would be a wash -sorta.  
The sorta part comes in with the angle of the pull at the case. Changing that angle of pull will also have an effect on how the clutch feels. W/o looking, I'd guess that lever will be at nearly right angle to the cable just at the point of engagement. Change that and you'll have even less linear feel at your hand. 
 
So you'll just have to bite the bullet and get new levers. Keep in mind, even with everything adjusted properly, the further back the lever is, the less it will travel before it hits the grip. That also cuts down on how far the clutch pack is opened. It may have no effect. But it might make the tranny shift a bit harsher - especially that click into 1st when the motor is cold. 
 
 
 

[rick]

mine feels okay. Apparently if you check the freeplay on the lever, as in pulling the lever and feeling where it actually begins to pull the cable, you should be able to fit the back (plastic part) of your key in the gap. 
I don't know if I described it correctly, but it worked for me.

Yeah, it'll be measured either at the gap between the lever and the pivot or it will be measured out at the ball as just a distance travelled. I pretty sure I saw that mentioned in the owners manual. It's an actual mm measure, maybe the key is just perfect - dunno 
 I like the engagement point pretty far out as that's where my Aprilia's hydraulic clutch works best. So switching back and forth between these 2 very different bikes is enough challenge for my old brain. So I've made the clutches as similar as possible. 
 
As long as there's some play in the cable, less play will always result in better shifting cause the clutch plates get opened further - assuming you pull the lever in until it hits the grip. 

[Guest Ralph]

Iv'e ridden 2 07's and both have had a sharp bite point close to the fully
out position, but strangely both need the clutch pulled right in if you are
not to get a big thump as it goes in gear though it does not seem to drag,
if it's cold pull in the clutch give it a little rev and it will go in gear
with the slightest click but when hot it always goes in with a bit of a clunk
no matter what you do, just the way they are, maybe once they get a bit of
ware on the plates they may get better but I have ridden worse.

[rick]

That's a trade-off in engineering. To give a lighter pull, that throwout lever on the case will be a bit long or its gearing is fairly low. That results in a light pull w/o much travel. So to get a nice clean shift, the OE lever has to be pulled all the way back to the bar. Putting an adjustable lever will make the reach easier, but because it will hit the grip sooner, this will decrease the throw further.
 
I've got an aftermarket slave cylinder for my Aprilia's hydraulic clutch. The cylinder is a bigger diameter than the OE one making lever pull easier. But this comes at a cost of throw distance - the same volume of fluid from the master fills a bigger hole. So lever pressure goes down, but so does travel resulting in a bit of plate drag.
 
That OE lever on that bike is adjustable. When I had the OE slave, I had it set to [HASH]3 (4 is closest to the grip) When I put the other slave on, I had to move the lever to the [HASH]1 position cause shift quality was less clean and the thunk into 1st gear was really harsh when it was cold.
 
This is why I don't mid having the clutch on the FZ out there. I've gotten used to it that way.
 
But yer right, it really is a short engagement for the FZ. The Rotax is just opposite. Full engagement point seems to take forever.

[ericpev]

That's the thing though. On mine, it seems that the actual engament/disengagement is very far from the bar resulting in my having to let it almost fully to get it rolling. Clutch play seems fine but the actual engagement point is far out rather than in. I can clutch and change gears with two fingers having the other two under the lever. On my old bonneville, I couldn't keep two finger under or else the clutch wouldn't disengage fully. I hope I'm making sense haha

[rick]

The best answer I can give you is that this isn't yer Bonneville.
 
They are not the same bikes, not the same clutches, not the same actuation linkages, not the same, etc. etc. Even lever length will factor in.
 
Was the Bonneville's cable free play adjusted to spec when you could not put fingers between the grip and lever? If that's the case, it's time to make this clutch more to your liking. Either that or go back to the Bonnie.
 
If your shift quality isstill good while restricting lever travel with yer fingers, then you could add slack to the cable w/o losing any performance. That will bring the lever back if you're more comfortable with it there. The flip side - you might have a floppy-dog lever rattling about.
 
It's also good news cause you'll be able to use an adjustable lever in the "small hand" position w/o issue in operation of the clutch. Ultimately, that's more important. You can get used to having the lever seemingly way out. Your gearbox will thank you for having plates wide open.

[ericpev]

I'm thinking I'll just get used to it and will upgrade my levers with some CRG's eventually. Cheers!

[huskydave]

I know what you what you are talking about on the short period of engagement. To me it looks like the throw out lever needs to be reindexed on the shaft. is installed to late in the game to give good feel??

[rick]

you'll have the most mechanical leverage over the clutch springs with that lever down at the clutch housing set near 90 degrees to the cable just as the clutch pack comes together. That's about where mine is iirc.
 
The only way to change the throw/engagement length feel would be to put a longer lever on at that housing or change the internal gearing (if there is any) that drives the clutch push rod.

[USMCFieldMP]

There are very distinct benefits to having the engagement point that far out. The biggest one being that shifting gears becomes really simple. I think I only have to pull the lever in about 1/4" to 1/2" to shift gears. If you're pulling your clutch lever in all the way; you're doing it wrong. The same applies for getting the bike rolling from a stop. It's more beneficial to have a short distance to travel on the clutch lever than to need to full range of motion.
 
I guess I could understand if you've just got short fingers and are having trouble with it... but the engagement point is where it is for good reason. It's a sport bike, not a cruiser - short and quick lever work to operate the clutch is more preferable.

[rick]

I was thinking they were trying to change the actual feel of the clutch more than just where the throw of the hand lever starts happening.
 
From where this clutch just starts to drag to where the lever is fully out (meaning plates together, not so much having slack in the cable) is a bit abrupt compared to my Aprilia's hydraulic clutch. And I have both levers starting actuation at about the same place relative to the bar. The Aprilia just seems to take forever between where the plates start to drag and where the plates are fully engaged in driving the bike.
 
Between the hydraulic vs cable and the vacuum operated slipper function in the Priller's clutch, I have 2 clutches that feel completely different (again, w/o regard to where the hand lever is positioned) . There's no changing any of that of course, just have to get the brain used to going back and forth between the 2.

[rowdy]

I noticed the same thing too, swapped to some shorty levers and problem 100% solved.

[rick]

don't understand how using a shorter lever at the bar helps with any of this. But if it feels good, do it.

[rowdy]

It's pretty simple really... If the shorty is closer to the bar (which is highly adjustable), the reach and distance to release are closer too.
That gives your hand much better leverage and an easier grip (think of the difference between gripping a basketball vs. a baseball as an exaggerated example),  besides... it works. Try it.