fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 hey guys, was going to adjust chain tension tonight and now the axle bolt is stuck. When I was loosening it I adjusted the nuts on the right carrier to much and the wheel slipped side ways and the bolt stopped turning. The wheel is back in alignment but will not tighten or loosen. The wheel can move in alignment. It gives maybe 1/2 turn either way. It is stuck. Please help../ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 tried to move it back and forth to slowly loosen it. Then noticed damage on the right side carrier, inside, from applying too much torque. I f**cked up big time. some pics posted below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member No Hater Posted July 24, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 24, 2015 post some pics if you can. someone may be able to give you some needed advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I went for a walk, had to step away. Good thing I can walk to work/school. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot to take pictures of. http://imgur.com/a/2PYvw I tried spaying some grease on the nut/exposed threads, nothing. Still the same 1/4 turn of travel before it locks in both directions. If I keep wrenching on it, the right carrier will get completely destroyed and the swingarm will start to become damaged as well. I have noticed that on the nut there is sort of a metal flange that goes around the outside, and part of it is sticking up. Kind of hard to see in the pics. The part I'm talking about is on the top of the nut in the pictures. Is that normal, could it be causing the nut to lock? I'm just totally confused as to why the nut is frozen like this. This is the second chain adjustment at 3k miles, the first one went off without a hitch. Any/ all advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member jake Posted July 24, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 24, 2015 The nut is a locking nut. not sure if you over tightened it or what (get a torque wrench). I would loosen the adjustment screws make sure the wheel is in line and you are going to have to get that nut loose. Hopefully you didn't damage the the shaft but you might need a new nut. I'd take to the dealer because sound like you need help. Something doesn't look right, there is marks where it looks like YOU f'ed something up. 2015 FZ-07 2003 2014 GSXR 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 There's nothing unusual about the first few pics... its a "fuji-style" locking nut, the little metal tangs in front of the nut sitting on the threads of the axle. However the last few pics indicate something was over-torqued, either the nut was tightened too much or it seized and too much torque was applied when trying to remove it. The swingarm is marred where the axle block rotated and contacted; as well as the "flats" on the axle block are deformed from the axle-end rotating. There was another member with a similar issue, except in his case he was able to remove the nut (with a LOT of force)... but the threads on the axle were severely deformed. I would soak the nut/threads with penetrating oil, like: PB-Blaster, Kroil, etc... (NOT WD-40, at least the "regular" one) and remove the nut with either a large breaker bar or better yet, impact gun. Then asses the damage. Either the nut was over-torqued, debris got in the threads, or the nut seized to the axle. Luckily, I had no issue removing my axle nut (did it when the bike had barely any miles and no expose to water) and applied anti-seize (sparingly) to the threads and torqued nut to ~70 ft-lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If it were mine I would use my propane torch and heat up that nut to make it expand and use a torque wrench on it. If no torque wrench try slipping a metal pipe ( 12" - 24"L x 1" diam.) over the handle of a ratchet, that used to work great for me as a breaker bar but don't force it too much. Other than that, I'd take it to a shop. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndnmax Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If it were mine I would use my propane torch and heat up that nut to make it expand and use a torque wrench on it. If no torque wrench try slipping a metal pipe ( 12" - 24"L x 1" diam.) over the handle of a ratchet, that used to work great for me as a breaker bar but don't force it too much. Other than that, I'd take it to a shop. Torque wrenches should never be used to loosen up bolts, only tighten. Use a beaker bar then replace the axle, lock nut, and the damaged block on the brake side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 There was another member with a similar issue, except in his case he was able to remove the nut (with a LOT of force)... but the threads on the axle were severely deformed. I would soak the nut/threads with penetrating oil, like: PB-Blaster, Kroil, etc... (NOT WD-40, at least the "regular" one) and remove the nut with either a large breaker bar or better yet, impact gun. Then asses the damage. Either the nut was over-torqued, debris got in the threads, or the nut seized to the axle. How much force are you talking about? Much more force and the carrier is going to pop out of its groove and begin to rotate freely. I also don't want to mar the swingarm any more. But, will get breaker bar and see if I can get it loose. I just want to get it apart at this point to see what's what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Yeah wow, what a stupid-ass design. Someone with "artistic" tendencies thought they'd play engineer... Must have stayed at a Motel 6. I'm afraid there is no answer you're going to like. If you can, get it to a Yam dealer and let THEM fuck the swing arm up even more. That way it's a warranty replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The swingers probably not damaged. If you need to replace that axle adjuster, those parts, like many on this bike, are actually not that expensive. They are left and right speicific (as well as up/down). So make sure you get the right one if you choose to replace. Sounds like you galled the axle threads. Like BMWPOWER mentioned, we saw another axle with damaged threads. So, lubricate - heat if need be - and then work the nut in and out and in and out using a large wrench (no - do not use any torque) until it's worked off. The axle will likely be fubar and you'll want a new nut as well. If that doesn't work, there's always a Dremel with a cutting wheel. Split the nut in half. If you do this, make sure there are no rough edges on the axle before pulling it thru the wheel bearings and seals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 That's what I was afraid of...goddamn. all I was trying to do was adjust the chain. I will try penetrating oil and a breaker bar first, I think maybe I can brace the bracket with a little piece of wood against the swingarm to even the force instead of it just being in those corners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 The swingers probably not damaged. If you need to replace that axle adjuster, those parts, like many on this bike, are actually not that expensive. They are left and right speicific (as well as up/down). So make sure you get the right one if you choose to replace. Sounds like you galled the axle threads. Like BMWPOWER mentioned, we saw another axle with damaged threads. So, lubricate - heat if need be - and then work the nut in and out and in and out using a large wrench (no - do not use any torque) until it's worked off. The axle will likely be fubar and you'll want a new nut as well. If that doesn't work, there's always a Dremel with a cutting wheel. Split the nut in half. If you do this, make sure there are no rough edges on the axle before pulling it thru the wheel bearings and seals. No, they're not that expensive...I looked last night and was definitely surprised. Axle+nut+right side swingarm bracket came out to like $65, so if I can only get it apart, it won't be too expensive of a lesson... I'm not sure that you mean by a large wench. You mean a regular socket? I thought about the dremel thing too but would probably then need a left side swingarm bracket (not that big of a deal) as well since I'd end up accidentally screwing it up...quarters are too close inside there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If you give it to much stick the axle will turn in the cast bracket and destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 That cast bracket is already toast IMO. If there is enough lateral slop in the axle, put a wrench on the 2 flats so at least you can hold onto the axle while trying to get the nut off. If Yam had designed the swingarm to have a square edge instead of "sexy" rounded, the 4-finger thingy would at least have a decent surface to torque against. I guess there's an opportunity here for someone (not me) to dispense with the "Daytona quick-change axle" look (seriously, why?) and make plain axle blocks with a matching rounded contour as the swingarm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I didn't mean force it with a breaker, only to turn it with very little force after heating the nut which shouldn't hurt the torque wrench or throw it out of calibration but yeah, why use an expensive torque wrench if you have a pipe or a breaker bar. After more thought though, I would only heat the nut and then use a regular ratchet. If it doesn't come off easy don't force it with a breaker bar, it may make it worse. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 "I'm not sure that you mean by a large wench. You mean a regular socket? " Sorry - not large - long as in bigger lever. But yes, a regular socket - preferably 6pt. So I suggested working the nut off in small stages cause it will tend to gall the threads less. Turning the nut back in will sorta allow the threads to self repair as you work the nut back and forth. Each time you back the nut out, try to turn it a bit further. When it reaches strong resistance, turn it back in and then repeat. It's still gonna take some work and some force. Keep soaking with penetrating fluid as you do this. The nut is gonna get hot on its own. If you have a Dremel, cut around the circumference of the nut about half way in and then put one split in that outside half. That half should come off easy and might be enough to make it far easier to get the back half off w/o doing harm to that left side casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If you give it to much stick the axle will turn in the cast bracket and destroy it.That's exactly what I was thinking as well... just didn't mention it. In the process of loosening the nut, he might have pushed the axle towards the brake-side and left less "material" to hold between the axle-end (parallel cuts) and the blocks recess ("fingers"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Knocked the bastard loose. Picked up a torch for $20 at Lowe's after work and hit it with some liquid wrench (wipe off the excess before you torch it). What a nightmare. 2 sweaty hours. I'm never adjusting the chain tension again. How does one prevent this from happening? I'm not super convinced that it was my fault. I do have a torque wrench and it was tightened to spec before the incident. The trauma seen on the right adjuster in the pics happened after the nut seized and I was trying to break it loose. I was backing it out and BAM. Lubing the threads clearly isn't an option. Was it my fault or was I just really unlucky? Thanks for all of your help and advice guys. Really appreciate it. Also, where you guys order parts from? did some googling and there are like a dozen shady-looking sites. Axle is on backorder at bikebandit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't know if it was your fault or not but it's not the first one I have seen so something must be a bit prone to this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Knocked the bastard loose. Picked up a torch for $20 at Lowe's after work and hit it with some liquid wrench (wipe off the excess before you torch it). What a nightmare. 2 sweaty hours. I'm never adjusting the chain tension again. How does one prevent this from happening? I'm not super convinced that it was my fault. I do have a torque wrench and it was tightened to spec before the incident. The trauma seen on the right adjuster in the pics happened after the nut seized and I was trying to break it loose. I was backing it out and BAM. Lubing the threads clearly isn't an option. Was it my fault or was I just really unlucky? Thanks for all of your help and advice guys. Really appreciate it. Also, where you guys order parts from? did some googling and there are like a dozen shady-looking sites. Axle is on backorder at bikebandit. Good to hear you broke it free. If your torque wrench is reasonably accurate, there's no reason this was your fault. It's looking a bit like there are some faulty axle nuts out there. I'd write a letter to Yamaha or at least make it known to a dealer. Probably nothing will come of it, but you say your piece. At least the parts are really reasonable. I've bought parts from these guys in the past. Good prices and quick shipping http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 25, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 25, 2015 It's the nut...they were designed to be used "once"...I use these same nut style at work to assemble parts, I have had to cut bolts to remove the nut since it refused to come off...the culprit usally is one of the Lil metal tabs got ripped off and got stuck in the threads... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Anti-seize sparingly on threads and you can buy from partzilla, ronayers and bike bandit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just get a castle nut or a Nylock. and if you want to feed the paranoia, drill a cross-hole in the axle and pin it. But really, I've never had a nut come loose and that's even with an aluminum axle and aluminum nut (crazy KTM!). The thread will be something standard, most likely so places like McMaster or BoltWarehouse will have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflier9 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'm having trouble finding a 27mm castle nut. Where could I find out what size the threads are for the end of the axle? https://www.belmetric.com/cn18x15clz-castle-nut-zinc-p-3059.html?cPath=3_558 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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