Oil Disappearing

[ornery]

Just washed bike yesterday on front & rear stands.  Noticed sight glass had no visible oil!  Added a few tablespoons and saw it start to appear, so it wasn't much below the sight glass.  Ended up taking about 3/4 quart to bring it to top of sight glass.
 
Since I'd already washed it, there are no drips to be seen, but of course I'll keep an eye out for some.  I have noticed the smell of rubber burning the past three mornings.  So, I'm guessing oil is dripping onto the exhaust.  If not, it's burning the oil.  I changed oil at 600 miles, and it now has about 1,800.  1/2 of a quart has gone somewhere in 1,200 miles.  I had checked it a few times since the oil change, within ten days of it, and oil was at exactly half of the sight glass with bike level and straight upright.
 
Is it normal to burn that much during break in?  Where should I be looking for leaks?  There is absolutely nothing to see around the oil pan, filter, plug, or anywhere else at the moment.
 

[Guest Ralph]

Mine has not burnt a drop as far as I can tell in 7000 miles,
I would expect for so much to disappear you would see blue
smoke or a oil drip somewhere, is the coolant ok? it dose not
seem normal for this engine to use oil, the seal behind the
engine sprocket is a likely place but would expect to see
drips, would keep a eye on it, you don't want it getting
to low and damaging the engine, keep a eye out for the oil
pressure warning light stop right away if that comes on.

[ornery]

Well Ralph, just started it this morning and I could see it smoking and smelled it burning. Temp is only 63°F, so that may have been steam I saw, but can't mistake the oil burning smell.
 
How do I document this to get it repaired? And, not have to pay for it! Going to need a loaner bike as well

[bmwpowere36m3]

Mine hasn't burnt any that I can tell... whitish smoke could just be condensation in the morning. Did you check the level after warming up the bike, not on stands and upright?
 
Not sure why you filled it to the very top of the sight glass, a 1/4 way up is sufficient with a cold engine/oil.
 
If you broke the bike in per the factory manual, time to go out and BEAT on it... seriously. I've had some "engines" that burnt a little oil, but after some hard use the consumption went down. No gaurantees though.
 
Obviously look for any leaks, maybe oven pull the air filter and see if there's a lot of oil residue on the intake from the crankcase breather (singiel of blow-by).
 
Otherwise start tracking the consumption and talk you your dealer.

[ornery]

Just spoke with a service manager at Triumph Yamaha of Warren, Ohio. He suspects using Shell Rotella T6 is NOT the way to go. He said to pick up basically any motorcycle oil for Honda, Kawasaki or whatever, 10-40, with new filter. I told him the Rotella had the proper viscosity and rating shown in the manual, but didn't argue. He said if that takes care of the problem, I'm good to go, otherwise, I'll have to bring it to them for an evaluation.
 
I told him I'd prefer to drop it off with them at the end of the season, and not sure how long my warranty is good for, but it was purchased 05/16/15 and currently has 1,800 miles.
 
Seemed like a nice guy, despite my not buying the bike from his store. Is he steering me right?
[strong]Edit:[/strong]  He also asked me about whether it was cold or warm when I checked it.  Never thought about it!  I told him I'd check both warm and cold and log it.  He also asked about smoke & smell.  It does have the burnt oil smell, which I originally thought was rubber.
The bike never went over 5K RPM during break in, and I doubt has even seen 7K since... at least not for more than a second or two.

[bmwpowere36m3]

No, nothing wrong with Rotella T6 or triple T.... both carry a JASO MA rating. My only observation is that T6 breaks down quickly in a motorcycle engine with shared transmission.
 
I've been using Rotella 15W-40 (triple T) and not sure if I'll ever switch to synthetic. Rotella is cheap and it works well, plus I change my oil too often.

[bmwpowere36m3]

Sounds like the engine was baby'd a little.... run it hard for a while. 3rd gear and up, WOT (for as long as you can), then decel (close the throttle all the way, no brakes, let the engine do it), then WOT again
 
Repeat, repeat, constantly vary the RPM, at your mileage you can take it to redline (just don't hang around). Watch coolant temps. Try it over a period of time, change the oil and track the consumption.

[Guru]

It's very unusual nowadays for engine to burn oil. They can take quite a bit of beating. Like @bmwpowere36m3 says, Once warmed up, it doesn't hurt to give it a good flogging. Use the whole rev range.
I use Rotella T6 and have no complaints. No measurable oil consumption.
 
Was the bike level and straight when checking the oil? The sight glass is not a very accurate measuring device. Even putting the bike on a stand gives a different reading.

[ornery]

Checked bike at work before I started it. With bike standing straight vertical, oil level is exactly at the top of the sight glass. Started it and did not see smoke or smell burning. Rode it home seven miles and checked it hot. Exactly the same level.
 
I'm wondering if I should have stuck with a mineral oil for the first few oil changes? I assume the manufacturer had it filled initially with break in oil.  I don't think I could ever bring myself to flog it, like "Mototune USA" suggests.  I do understand the theory behind it, and this may be the issue. 
 

[yamahaha]

No oil burning here. Both bikes use 0 oil between changes and mine has 10,000 kms. I'm using a high quality 15/40.
 
I'm not a Rotella fan and besides, 5/40 may be too light in hot weather even if its synthetic.
 
 

[Guest Ralph]

Dont think I would have told the dealer you were using Rotella, it at lest here in the UK
is a heavy duty big diesel oil and I doubt if any bikes are running on it this side of the pond,
it's intended for big lazy long stroke Diesels doing 2 or 3.000 rpm with big oil ways and no
gears to speak of not a small 10,000 rpm petrol twin with tiny oil ways with a gear box and clutch
running in it, I worked in the trade and have seen more damage caused by to thick oil than thin,
what these engine need is a thin oil that will get through the small passageways and clearances fast
especially from cold, I can see it working in some old clunker of a Harley but personally I wouldn't
put it in a modern high revving engine, Yes I know what I have just said is worse to you lot that
spitting on your flag and shooting your dog hell I will likely be lock out of every bike forum in
the US but it's the way I see it, at the end of the day it's your bike and you will be just as convinced
you are right as I am.

[Beemer]

Ralph
 
Don't worry, if anyone attacks you the U.S. will save you. (jk) I think 10W40 would be fine to use.

[bmwpowere36m3]

Checked bike at work before I started it. With bike standing straight vertical, oil level is exactly at the top of the sight glass. Started it and did not see smoke or smell burning. Rode it home seven miles and checked it hot. Exactly the same level. 
I'm wondering if I should have stuck with a mineral oil for the first few oil changes? I assume the manufacturer had it filled initially with break in oil.  I don't think I could ever bring myself to flog it, like "Mototune USA" suggests.  I do understand the theory behind it, and this may be the issue. 

 
 
If it's to the top of the sight glass, then likely it's overfilled. Especially after warming it up and the sight glass is full. There are two sets of marks on the sides of the sight glass (engine case). Oil level hot should be between them.

[bmwpowere36m3]

Dont think I would have told the dealer you were using Rotella, it at lest here in the UK is a heavy duty big diesel oil and I doubt if any bikes are running on it this side of the pond,
it's intended for big lazy long stroke Diesels doing 2 or 3.000 rpm with big oil ways and no
gears to speak of not a small 10,000 rpm petrol twin with tiny oil ways with a gear box and clutch
running in it, I worked in the trade and have seen more damage caused by to thick oil than thin,
what these engine need is a thin oil that will get through the small passageways and clearances fast
especially from cold, I can see it working in some old clunker of a Harley but personally I wouldn't
put it in a modern high revving engine, Yes I know what I have just said is worse to you lot that
spitting on your flag and shooting your dog hell I will likely be lock out of every bike forum in
the US but it's the way I see it, at the end of the day it's your bike and you will be just as convinced
you are right as I am.

 
 
Here in the US, at least, Rotella T6 5W-40 and Rotella triple protection 15W-40 both carry JASO MA ratings (motorcycle approved).
 
I agree with not using too heavy of an oil, but I would not consider either of the above too heavy. Maybe come "winter-time" or cooler weather I might consider 10W-30 or 10W-40 or 5W-40.

[ornery]

OMG, I have no allegiance to any oil!   I just want something in there that won't void the warranty, and not spend an arm and leg for Yamalube.  It is rated for the bike, both specification, and weight.  I'm only worried the full synthetic may be too slick to allow the rings to fully seat.  Wondering if I should throw more break in oil for a hundred miles or so?
 
I'll drain a little out.  I was told by the mechanic that prepped it for me, as long as you can see oil in the sight glass, you're good.  Too blind to see any level marks on it.  I'll check that out when I drain it.
 
I have done some schooling on oil at "Bob Is The Oil Guy".  Site seems to be down now, but it's a great source of oil and filter info, when it's up.  I now fully accept the fact that "thicker" isn't better.  You need oil flowing freely when the engine is cold.  That's when 90% of the wear takes place.  In my case, I don't think it's worn enough.  Just a hunch.
 
Edit:
 
Oil and Oil Filter Change Schedule Summary -
 
Make sure no synthetic oil is used during the first 1500 miles. Use only regular motorcycle specific SAE 10W – 40 mineral (petroleum) oil that meets or exceeds the API SG and JASO MA2 standards. If you're not sure what oil is in your new bike, change it immediately to this oil, and change the filter as well. While 10w - 40 is best for most, if your particular climate or engine requires something different, then by all means use it.
 
[span]    [/span][span]    [/span]50 Miles - Change oil and oil filter (Mineral Oil)
 
[span]    [/span][span]    [/span]200 Miles - Change oil and oil filter (Mineral Oil)
 
[span]    [/span][span]    [/span]500 Miles - Change oil and oil filter (Mineral Oil)
 
[span]    [/span][span]    [/span]1500 Miles - Change oil and oil filter (Mineral Oil or Synthetic Oil as Desired)
 
 
You know, the pisser is I didn't make the decision to use Rotella T6 on the first change willy-nilly.   I was concerned about this very issue, and read it would be fine.  That many car manufacturers are using full synthetic right from the factory.  That sounded like a green light to me!  Sonuvabitch.....
 
 
 

[yamahaha]

It's not a bad idea to follow the UOAs at Bob's. Gives you a good idea of what oils are doing.

[wickedtwister]

Go flog the hell out of the bike and fully seat your rings. I switched to full synthetic at 1500 miles. I have no idea what yamalube is but I started flogging the bike at about 400-500 miles. Got the 600 mile service done at Yamaha and changed my oil again (to full synthetic) when I was doing other stuff to my bike. But everyone is right you used oil rated for your bike so I don't think oil brand is the issue but your rings are not seated properly. Just my $0.02

[mjh937]

I did a pretty hard break in, changed the oil at 600 miles and switched to full synthetic (Mobil 1) at 2,000 miles. My bike does not burn any oil.

[ornery]

Well, I've read so many opinions on easy VS hard engine break-in, mineral VS synthetic oil, of "experts" and end users with hundreds of thousands of combined miles to back up their opinions.    I've found that "break in oil" has additives to protect parts from wear, so WTF?
 
I have a couple filters on the way from New York.  Should be here by Tuesday.  Drained a few ounces out, and cold the level is just under the top line, hot (172°F) it's in the middle.  Started it and smelled no burning from the exhaust.
 
I can pick up Valvoline VV740 at Walmart, which Meets or Exceeds JASO MA2.  Not sure if it's worth the trouble to change it out, but I guess it can't hurt.  I will push it, but which will have the greater benefit?  High RPM, high load (not sure how I'd do that), high RPM low load, low RPM high load (lugging it) or low RPM low load?  Guess I can scratch the last choice, since that's what I've been doing.  It rarely sees the freeway now, and even then, only for a five miles or so.  Guess I should change that, eh?
 
Edit:
 
Started it up, smelled no oil burning, warmed it up to 174° and rode the freeway to a distant Walmart.  I was going to open it up right off the entrance ramp, but held back.  1/4 mile later there was a cop with radar under an overpass!  Hah!  I nodded at him and he looked disgusted
 
Anyway, when I figured the coast was clear I opened it up all the way to 90MPH.  Total hooligan,  I know   Varied the gears from 4th 5th & 6th.  When I got off the exit and sat at a light, I could smell something like rubber, and the temp reached 190°F.  Went back down quickly to 174°F when I got rolling again.  Accelerated rapidly and wound it out where I could.  No oil smell when I stopped.  Walmart had no Valvoline motorcycle oil on the shelf.  I should be able to get it at Walmart near work.  Ran home on the scenic route and wound it out and varied RPM as much as possible.  Fuel gage flashing the whole way.  Went ten miles like that, and got gas.  No oil burning smell.  Took 2.918 gallons after 148.6 miles for an average 50.925MPG.  Exciting stuff eh?
[strong]Edit 08/31/15:[/strong]
[em]Hi John,
 
We're sorry to tell you that the item(s) below isn't currently available at the Eastlake Walmart. However, for your convenience we've arranged to rush your order to this store.
 
You don't need to take any further action, and we will send you a notification when your order is ready for pickup in 3 to 6 days. The new order number is # XXXXX-XXXXX.[/em]
Not really a surprise!   It was supposedly in stock at the one I went to last night.  So, now my bike is in infinite peril till I get this dreaded Rotella synthetic out.
 
 

[bmwpowere36m3]

"Break-in oil"... that's from the cast-iron bore, push-rod and flat tappet days. Modern engines with plated bores can be broken in with any old mineral or synthetic oil (in some cases). The machining/finish in today’s engines is light-years ahead of those of yester-year. Basically all you’re breaking-in is the rings and that takes “load”. I don't have any personal experience or know of any data that suggests synthetic cannot be used to break-in an engine (purely speculative, wives tale, or just something repeated over and over).
 
Everything else within the engine: bearing surfaces, gears, cams, etc… “break-in” (polish up) over a longer period of time and don’t require any specific conditions… other than time/mileage.
 
And “break-in” oil usually is non-detergent (oil doesn’t hold contaminants in-solution) with high levels of ZDDP (protect cam/tappet surfaces). It does not reduce “wear” of cylinder/ring interface as that would be counterproductive. Also worth noting that some manufacturers test-run/dyno engines before a vehicles is delivered, so some of that break-in is already accomplished.
 
Personally I broke my bike in hard and changed the oil frequently (3 times before I hit 600 miles). I only think high-RPM, extended time at higher RPMs and over-heating should be avoided early on. Basically vary the RPM (avoid interstate/freeway), accel/decal, use a much throttle as you can in higher gears (3rd and up) for extended periods.

[aeisan]

Seems like a whole lot of worrying over nothing to me. My first question would be are you certain the bike was level when you checked it the first time? Both stands raise the bike the same height and it was on level ground? I'm wondering if it was not low in the first place, and by adding oil you overfilled it, which I think has already been established.
 
Also, when you filled it at the first change, did you make sure to run the bike a bit and then recheck the level? especially if you changes the filter, the oil needs to soak in and the level will drop once you start it for a bit and stop it.
 
I would be much more inclined to suspect one of these things before I'd assume the bike is burning oil or was not broken in correctly.

[ornery]

Same here except for the smell and actually watching the smoke from the exhaust. Level was checked at least twice during the week after changing oil. That's why I put it out of my mind till last week. When I topped it off, I purposely took it right to the top of the sight glass for easy reference if it started going down. I've smelled the burnt odor a few times now at various times. Actually smelled more like rubber than oil. Today, not a hint of odor in the morning, after I got to work, starting at work or after arriving at home. Believe me, I'm watching it like a hawk from now on.

[yamahappy74]

If you didn't get over 5K during the break in, then your rings probably didn't seat properly and it's entirely possible you ARE burning oil. Not much, mind you, but you've likely got oil blowing past the rings. I know what the manual says, but it's bollocks. There is a lot of contention concerning proper break-in of an engine, but the fact is that Yamaha is just covering their arse.

[yamahaha]

The manual breakin is a joke. Mostly, they just want people to hold it down for awhile for their own safety.
 
The odd burst to redline and let it pull hard at times. No lugging the engine for long periods. Couple hundred miles and they loosen up.
 
I watched a documentary about MV Augusta. They put every bike on a dyno before its shipped. And no ffnn around either - wide open throttle right now. I don't know what the others do.
 
I had the engine done in my old z1 kawasaki. Not much was left kawasaki. Most everything was yosimura including a big block(1100 cc).
I put the engine back into the bike. My instructions were to start the engine and hold it at 6000 rpms for a period of time. This was critical to the rings and cylinders.
After that it was ride it like you stole it. Believe me, that was a lot of motorcycle in the day! Still miss that baby today.