Starting problem?

[liami]

I don't have an issue with starting as in it won't start at all, but sometimes it takes a few extra seconds of holding the starter button for the bike to actually turn over. Does anyone else have this issue? It starts immediately after having it run for a little while. I never seen the issue with any other fi bikes like my stepdad's busa or others I've been near in a shop. Anything new wrong or is it normal for everyone else?

[sorkyah]

I don't have an issue with starting as in it won't start at all, but sometimes it takes a few extra seconds of holding the starter button for the bike to actually turn over. Does anyone else have this issue? It starts immediately after having it run for a little while. I never seen the issue with any other fi bikes like my stepdad's busa or others I've been near in a shop. Anything new wrong or is it normal for everyone else?

There is a decompressor on the engine to aid in starting, but the main culprit would be the 270° crank positioning
It does grt a bit better as the miles rack up

[roadrash]

This happens to me as well with cold starts and it never used to happen with my R6. Usually less than 2 seconds before it starts up. Just like you though it has never actually not started. It's probably just normal I'm sure.

[phicurious86]

Completely normal.
 
2-4 seconds to start on average when I was riding the fizz.
 

[ravenlord]

It is a parallel twin with a 270 degree firing order. Depending where the crank stopped when you shut the bike down it might have to rotate a full 270 degrees before a piston is ready to receive spark.
 
Having it always start every time, even in the dead of -15C winter, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Beemer]

Congrats, your bike has personality!

[sorkyah]

Congrats, your bike has personality!

attitude is more like it

[Beemer]

Congrats, your bike has personality!

attitude is more like it

Yes, attitude, acts like a stubborn old mule with attitude. 

[ornery]

If this were my bike with this issue, I wouldn't be content with it.  I actually watched all thirty minutes of this video, troubleshooting the extended crank time in a 2002 BMW X5.  I'll save you the trouble.  It was the crank position sensor.
 
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1EmtwJh2o8]
 
 
I suspect it's also one of the bike's ECU sensors:
 
 

 
But, how much time and expense are you, or I, willing to put into resolving it when the bike ultimately starts every time?  If it were my bike, and I was told positively, it is a $50 part that takes one hour to install... I'm not sure if I'd bother.  If I knew total failure of that part could leave me stranded... Well, I think I'd fix it. 
 
At this point it would take a pro, like this "motoYam82", a while to pinpoint it, and that's at least $75, plus the cost of the part, and time to install it.  Only you can say if it's worth that.
 
I hope somebody eventually posts their solution(s).  That would save a lot of people from diagnostic fees, and throwing parts at it.
 
 
 
Edit: Did you, by any chance, change you're exhaust?
 
Tuning after new exhaust - liami, May 22, 2016 at 1:31am
 
If so, did this issue crop up after that?
 
 
 

[liami]

Sorry for a late reply guys, that all makes sense and it's good to know it's nothing big. And ornery, you're right...as long as it starts every time, it's really not worthy fixing something that isn't broken. No, I didn't replace the exhaust, the bike is still completely stock. I just noticed the delayed starting now and then. Well, quite often really

[Guest Ralph]

I find and this goes against the owners book that if you give it a small amount of throttle
it starts instantly.

[ornery]

Does that point to the throttle position sensor, or an adjustment of that part? Does the throttle body sync effect that? Wouldn't hurt anything or cost much to go ahead and try it.

[Guest Ralph]

To start especially from cold a engine needs a little more throttle, on
this bike as far as I know "please feel free to speak if you know different"
the only way this can happen is for the ecu to speed up the tickover and
it takes time for the little motor to open, that could be why it turns on
the starter a sec or two, balancing the throttle bodys probably wont
make any difference but if you can get it right worth doing as the engine
on mine felt a little smoother, but in all honesty all the 3 o7's I
have ridden have been the same so I wont be worrying about it.
You need diagnostics to do the tps so thats best alone and I doubt
it will make the slightest difference. Anyway a little turning on the
starter gives the oil pressure a little more time to rise and thats good
for the engine.

[liami]

But giving throttled during startup on a fuel injected bike fowls spark plugs fast. My idiot stepdad proved that numerous times on his r6 and his busa. He doesn't learn...I had to replace his spark plugs 4 times within two months and he put maybe 50 miles between the changes

[Guest Ralph]

But giving throttled during startup on a fuel injected bike fowls spark plugs fast. My idiot stepdad proved that numerous times on his r6 and his busa. He doesn't learn...I had to replace his spark plugs 4 times within two months and he put maybe 50 miles between the changes

I don't know what but something else was going on as well here, modern engines just don't foul  there plugs unless something is not right, lots of very short journeys may do it or more likely just
starting it up and stopping it but even that is unusual with a modern engine in good condition.
 
But I did say it was not recommended though  having said that I just looked at the owners book
a UK one as yours may be different and mine makes no mention of throttle position at all all the
other injected bikes I have had did but not this one.
 
It does say don't crank it for more than 10 secs at a time but to be honest 10 secs with the engine
on the starter feels like a lifetime. 
 
Again I still don't think it's a problem though many do notice it.

[liami]

I don't know, I ended up replacing his spark plugs, mapping his power commander, syncing his throttle bodies, and replacing his fuel injectors so one of those should've solved his fouling issue. I was told by other mechanics, as well as personal experience, to just not use throttle during start on fi bikes

[wickedtwister]

Main reason it takes so long to start is the 90degree crank. As others have said one of the 2 cylinders has to be on the compression stoke before it can receive spark. If you compare it to a 4 cylinder motorcycle yes it takes forever to start but they have 4 cylinder spaced 90deg apart so it takes a lot less revolution of the crank to get one on a compression stroke.
 
Some engines always start by firing the number 1 cylinder while others will fire on the next compression stroke. Just depends how much money they pumped into the computer and if it remembers the location it was when it shut off.
 
Some fi engines require a couple signals from the crank and cam sensors before it will fire off. This is so the computer can ensure they in phase with each other before starting.
 
Building an instant starting motor is pretty difficult and adds more money to a low budget bike.
 
I used to work with ford and designing Michelin OE tires and they had an absolute shit fit when we increased the price of the tires by $7.... not each that was the total increase they paid per vehicle. This was on a $40K car. It really opened my eyes to how concerned vehicle manufactures are to the price and weight of the components going into vehicles...

[sorkyah]

Main reason it takes so long to start is the 90degree crank. As others have said one of the 2 cylinders has to be on the compression stoke before it can receive spark. If you compare it to a 4 cylinder motorcycle yes it takes forever to start but they have 4 cylinder spaced 90deg apart so it takes a lot less revolution of the crank to get one on a compression stroke.  
Some engines always start by firing the number 1 cylinder while others will fire on the next compression stroke. Just depends how much money they pumped into the computer and if it remembers the location it was when it shut off.
 
Some fi engines require a couple signals from the crank and cam sensors before it will fire off. This is so the computer can ensure they in phase with each other before starting.
 
Building an instant starting motor is pretty difficult and adds more money to a low budget bike.
 
I used to work with ford and designing Michelin OE tires and they had an absolute shet fit when we increased the price of the tires by $7.... not each that was the total increase they paid per vehicle. This was on a $40K car. It really opened my eyes to how concerned vehicle manufactures are to the price and weight of the components going into vehicles...

$7/car X 5million cars...
the cost savings is enourmous in the long run

[angus]

 Anyway a little turning on the starter gives the oil pressure a little more time to rise and thats good
for the engine.

Thank You Ralph, that really made me feel better. My bike has been taking a little longer to start lately and I had been concerned. Now instead of being worried I'll just think about how much longer my engine should last. I'll watch the situation of course but I'm turning off the red alert. I've got enough other things to worry about.  
 
 
 

[avanti]

As you initially describe the "problem," I think any dealer would tell you it isn't. So, if in doubt and you "need" a day wasted, take it to a dealer and hear what they have to say.

[angus]

My bike is still taking a little longer to start than it did when it was new. I think it has to do with fuel pressure.
 
Lately I've been bumping the starter for a second and then letting off. I then listen to the fuel pump and hit the starter again when the pump stops. The bike will start instantly on the second try every time.

[robborboy]

I don't have an issue with starting as in it won't start at all, but sometimes it takes a few extra seconds of holding the starter button for the bike to actually turn over. Does anyone else have this issue? It starts immediately after having it run for a little while. I never seen the issue with any other fi bikes like my stepdad's busa or others I've been near in a shop. Anything new wrong or is it normal for everyone else?

There is a decompressor on the engine to aid in starting, but the main culprit would be the 270° crank positioning It does grt a bit better as the miles rack up

 

It is a parallel twin with a 270 degree firing order. Depending where the crank stopped when you shut the bike down it might have to rotate a full 270 degrees before a piston is ready to receive spark. 
Having it always start every time, even in the dead of -15C winter, I wouldn't worry about it.

Exactly this. One of the best things about the 270 degree crank on the twin is that it makes it extremely similar to a v-twin. Albeit it just a hair off. With the way it picks up and that low, middle, grumble, I've had people genuinely confused that it was a twin. That is why , in my opinion atleat, it is much more fun to ride that a similar twin like the Ninja 650.
 
But that does carry quirks, just like this one here. And with all v-twins I've ever owned it can take a slightly-longer-than-normal bit to turn over. Even my current Shadow 1100 with to spark plugs per cylinder takes a bit.