5tonfan Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I have had the JBH cartridges and XXF11 rear shock for a little while so will try to write a review. Now let me start this off in that I am no suspension expert and have never done a track day so this will be just my rambling. Paul at Bellissimoto was great to deal with by answering my questions quickly making it easy to order the parts as well as keeping me updated when I pestered him. Installation was easy for the shock, with the hardest part trying to get the rear of the bike to hang. Now I knew there could be an issue with the front, whoever put it together over torqued the hell out of all of the bolts to include the axle. The cartridges went in easy with no fuss or odd left over pieces. Now on to the part you actually care about. I have commuted to work found the twistiest road I could and even been able to ride 2 up a few times. Sag was right on for the front at 35mm with the rear running at 38mm right after install. First impression was the front end is FIRM right out of the box. This is compared to stock so no surprise there. Rear was harder to notice at first since I have had my preload set to 9 prior to this. Straight line it is still firm but I haven’t made too many changes yet, but this system shines in a corner. There is no wiggle, swaying, or any type of upset. Corners that previously had the bike rocking back and forth are now stable. I have to remind myself that this is a road and to slow down. The tires stay planted to the road now, straight line or leaned there is none of the “skitters” that I felt with the stock suspension. I think I might try softening up the compression on the front and see if that is better for me. This system has a lot of adjustments so I might be at it awhile. Not much else to think to say if you have the system on the way congrats and if you’re thinking about it now you have more info to muddy the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etorty Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Hi @5tonfan! Thank you for your review! I have some questions, basically about the springs. You write that you was at 9 th position for the preload with the original mono, so I presume that your weight is superior to mine. I was at 5 with the original mono, and in my XXF11 I have a spring K=12 (with about 14 mm of total preload). But... about the JBHs: what's the K for the supplied springs? And, if you've added an o-ring to the front, what's the maximum dive you've reached when braking harder? With the stock front suspensions, I've reached about 90 - 92 mm. But my weight is about 79 kg in gear. And you, now with the Bitubos? www.MT-Series.it Yamaha Official MT-Series Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5tonfan Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 I did a lot of riding with the stock rear at 6, but I didn't like the amount the bike would sag under acceleration so went to 9. I think I have a K 12.5 with 8 to 12 of preload. The JBH came with .95 but don't have the paper in front of me. I didn't add an o-ring? Paperwork didn't mention it but you do reuse your original top out spring. I did replace the lower bushings but like others you could see the bronze thru the teflon coating. I haven't measured max dive, new guy to suspension. I'm about 95kg in riding gear so a bit heavier then you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted May 1, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted May 1, 2017 Hi @5tonfan! Thank you for your review! I have some questions, basically about the springs. You write that you was at 9 th position for the preload with the original mono, so I presume that your weight is superior to mine. I was at 5 with the original mono, and in my XXF11 I have a spring K=12 (with about 14 mm of total preload). But... about the JBHs: what's the K for the supplied springs? And, if you've added an o-ring to the front, what's the maximum dive you've reached when braking harder? With the stock front suspensions, I've reached about 90 - 92 mm. But my weight is about 79 kg in gear. And you, now with the Bitubos? Not sure if this helps, but max dive on my K Tech forks is 73 mm so far. Not sure on spring rate, but the kit was supposedly tailored to my weight. I never measured stock fork dive sadly. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbob2000 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Glad to see reviews starting to come out. Looking forward to picking up the JBH and one of the lower level shocks as soon as I can heal my bank account. Would like to hear more about the install. A little intimidating for some one who has never done bike suspension. Keep the updates coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etorty Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I did a lot of riding with the stock rear at 6, but I didn't like the amount the bike would sag under acceleration so went to 9. I think I have a K 12.5 with 8 to 12 of preload. The JBH came with .95 but don't have the paper in front of me. I didn't add an o-ring? Paperwork didn't mention it but you do reuse your original top out spring. I did replace the lower bushings but like others you could see the bronze thru the teflon coating. I haven't measured max dive, new guy to suspension. I'm about 95kg in riding gear so a bit heavier then you. Thank you for your infos! When I was with the original mono, I like the sag with 5 of preload, but the problem was the lack of rebound control... I think that for you the problem with the preload at 6 was the opposite: lack of compression control (under acceleration). Now with the XXF11 I suppose you're happy... right? ;) About the added o-ring, I was meaning this: (now with the JBHs, 2 mm of preload) (about three weeks ago, with the OE forks, but 15W oil) You can add this: to one stanchion, in order to measure the max dive. Or you can look at the little ring of dirt that remains on the stanchion. I've done some tests, and with the JBH I prefer 0 mm of preload. The hydraulics are stunning. Awesome. I'm really impressed. I reach about 65 mm of dive, but I know that we have about 30 mm more to use. I have the springs with K=9, maybe the K is a little stiff for my weight. O_o free image hosting www.MT-Series.it Yamaha Official MT-Series Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5tonfan Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 Install was pretty easy for the shock. Hard part was getting it suspended and the bolts for the rear hugger out. Still only took 30 to 45 min to do and have a drink. Like etorty I need to trim the plastic on the air box but that is the only fitment issues I've had. Now the front I completely took apart and replaced the lower bushings and oil seals (seals didn't need it but could use the practice) and I have never done it before. The hard part is getting the dampner rod bolt out. I took it to 2 different shops after using a ratchet strap and my impact on it. The bolt holding one in was damaged and if I look at the threads in the rod they are chewed up too. Think whoever they have assembling the forks has a problem. Once the legs were apart and I had a replacement bolt they were back together and on the bike without any issues. The reassembly may have taken an hour or two but I didn't notice time cause I was too excited about getting it back together. I can turn a wrench and read instructions and watch videos but have never done anything like this befor and would classify it as a 2 beer difficulty once you have the bolt out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5tonfan Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 I did a lot of riding with the stock rear at 6, but I didn't like the amount the bike would sag under acceleration so went to 9. I think I have a K 12.5 with 8 to 12 of preload. The JBH came with .95 but don't have the paper in front of me. I didn't add an o-ring? Paperwork didn't mention it but you do reuse your original top out spring. I did replace the lower bushings but like others you could see the bronze thru the teflon coating. I haven't measured max dive, new guy to suspension. I'm about 95kg in riding gear so a bit heavier then you. Thank you for your infos! When I was with the original mono, I like the sag with 5 of preload, but the problem was the lack of rebound control... I think that for you the problem with the preload at 6 was the opposite: lack of compression control (under acceleration). Now with the XXF11 I suppose you're happy... right? About the added o-ring, I was meaning this: (now with the JBHs, 2 mm of preload) (about three weeks ago, with the OE forks, but 15W oil) You can add this: to one stanchion, in order to measure the max dive. Or you can look at the little ring of dirt that remains on the stanchion. I've done some tests, and with the JBH I prefer 0 mm of preload. The hydraulics are stunning. Awesome. I'm really impressed. I reach about 65 mm of dive, but I know that we have about 30 mm more to use. I have the springs with K=9, maybe the K is a little stiff for my weight. O_o free image hosting Yeh haven't done too much to measure those yet. Love the XXF11 and have not made to many changes to its base settings. The rear sticks to the road now and I don't feel like I'm sitting on the tire when the right wrist gets twist happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etorty Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Not sure if this helps, but max dive on my K Tech forks is 73 mm so far. Not sure on spring rate, but the kit was supposedly tailored to my weight. I never measured stock fork dive sadly.Hi @blackout, interesting infos! 73 mm is between my actual max dive and the previous with the OE fork. It will be useful to know your weight (with riding gear) and the spring rate, in order to do some comparison. Please, do you can check this in the manual of your KTech cartridges? And... what's your weight? www.MT-Series.it Yamaha Official MT-Series Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted May 2, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted May 2, 2017 Not sure if this helps, but max dive on my K Tech forks is 73 mm so far. Not sure on spring rate, but the kit was supposedly tailored to my weight. I never measured stock fork dive sadly.Hi @blackout , interesting infos! 73 mm is between my actual max dive and the previous with the OE fork. It will be useful to know your weight (with riding gear) and the spring rate, in order to do some comparison. Please, do you can check this in the manual of your KTech cartridges? And... what's your weight? I'm 180 pounds with riding gear. I'll have to e-mail my installer to see if he knows the spring rate. Oddly, none was shown on the K-Tech packaging. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Not sure I understand how you guys are measuring fork travel, but with it on the side stand, you can easily top out the suspension by pushing up on the right handle bar and then measuring from the dust gator up to your o-ring or cable tie. The OE fork has something like 120mm of potential travel. I would think that with the proper springs for your weight, you should be able to get up around 100 mm, but that might take some hard, controlled braking. All of these cartridge systems seem to leave the front fairly taught and firm. But the brake dive is so much gone and control is so good, the transformation is worth losing a bit of Caddy-like compliance. Not familiar with these cartridges, but if compression is on one side and rebound on the other, you might consider using a lighter fluid on the C side or maybe increasing the air gap 20 or 30 mm by using less fluid. I've done both in my Andreanis with nice results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted May 2, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted May 2, 2017 Travel measured from full droop. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 That's how I'll do it, I just won't bother with the stand. With only 70+ mm max travel and a 35mm sag, yer only using 35-40mm of suspension Try backing the preload down and see what the sag does. With a lot of rear weight bias, it might not change much but you might gain some travel. You might be better off with a slightly lighter spring with a bit more preload dialed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted May 2, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted May 2, 2017 That's how I'll do it, I just won't bother with the stand. With only 70+ mm max travel and a 35mm sag, yer only using 35-40mm of suspension Try backing the preload down and see what the sag does. With a lot of rear weight bias, it might not change much but you might gain some travel. You might be better off with a slightly lighter spring with a bit more preload dialed in. Good advise, thanks. I'm full out on the preload already, so if I want more sag softer springs will be needed. But, my test riding on the street is far from extreme, so I'll wait till I get to the track before making spring changes. Hopefully, June. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etorty Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 [...] Not familiar with these cartridges, but if compression is on one side and rebound on the other, you might consider using a lighter fluid on the C side or maybe increasing the air gap 20 or 30 mm by using less fluid. I've done both in my Andreanis with nice results. Hi @rick, the JBH is pressurized, so no chance of change the behavior of the hydraulics with a different fluid. In my case, maybe the dive will be better (a couple of cm more than now) with a lighter spring. I'll let you know when I'll can do some experiments. The hydraulics are really awesome, anyway. Excellent feeling in any situation. At this moment I've ride with the JBH for about 600 km of highways, and about 400 km of mountain roads, with many corners. Mountain roads was not in the best condition, but I've had every time a good feel with the front of the bike. www.MT-Series.it Yamaha Official MT-Series Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5tonfan Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 I don't want people to get the wrong idea. When I say firm it is stiffer, but far from and not in the least harsh. You feel the bumps but its not wrist abusing. I didn't think the front was bad when I first got the bike but the more I rode and started pushing harder is when I saw its shortcomings. Enough front end dive under hard breaking that the rear would come loose, and this isn't even panic breaking more hard stop for a light. Now when I hit the front brakes the front has some dip and there isn't the squishy/ endo-stop/ loss of stability feeling. I now don't have the seesaw effect when going into a corner. I still have a lot of adjustment room to play around with so time will tell how good and smooth I can make it for me. I am very happy with both now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 [...] Not familiar with these cartridges, but if compression is on one side and rebound on the other, you might consider using a lighter fluid on the C side or maybe increasing the air gap 20 or 30 mm by using less fluid. I've done both in my Andreanis with nice results. Hi @rick , the JBH is pressurized, so no chance of change the behavior of the hydraulics with a different fluid. In my case, maybe the dive will be better (a couple of cm more than now) with a lighter spring. I'll let you know when I'll can do some experiments. The hydraulics are really awesome, anyway. Excellent feeling in any situation. At this moment I've ride with the JBH for about 600 km of highways, and about 400 km of mountain roads, with many corners. Mountain roads was not in the best condition, but I've had every time a good feel with the front of the bike. Ah, cool , just had a look. Nice that it's a straight drop-in w/o going thru the headache of grinding off that flange the way the Andreani is done. Wonder if you can adjust the gas pressure to soften the effective spring strength. I'm guessing you still need fluid in the forks - even if it's not needed for the damping. A bigger air gap might still help. I just had mine apart a couple weeks ago to lower the fluid level to 140mm. Andreani calls for 120. I've made so many changes it's hard to tell what's had the biggest effect. But a bigger air gap has helped softened the big hits. Just for reference, I specified 150 lbs for me and gear and they gave me 0.78kg springs. That's pretty close for me, but probably could still be a tad softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 I don't want people to get the wrong idea. When I say firm it is stiffer, but far from and not in the least harsh. You feel the bumps but its not wrist abusing. I didn't think the front was bad when I first got the bike but the more I rode and started pushing harder is when I saw its shortcomings. Enough front end dive under hard breaking that the rear would come loose, and this isn't even panic breaking more hard stop for a light. Now when I hit the front brakes the front has some dip and there isn't the squishy/ endo-stop/ loss of stability feeling. I now don't have the seesaw effect when going into a corner. I still have a lot of adjustment room to play around with so time will tell how good and smooth I can make it for me. I am very happy with both now. After you have a month or so with the new legs, you should seek out a ride on another FZ, still with its stock suspension. I think you might be shocked and want yours back - quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5tonfan Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 I don't want people to get the wrong idea. When I say firm it is stiffer, but far from and not in the least harsh. You feel the bumps but its not wrist abusing. I didn't think the front was bad when I first got the bike but the more I rode and started pushing harder is when I saw its shortcomings. Enough front end dive under hard breaking that the rear would come loose, and this isn't even panic breaking more hard stop for a light. Now when I hit the front brakes the front has some dip and there isn't the squishy/ endo-stop/ loss of stability feeling. I now don't have the seesaw effect when going into a corner. I still have a lot of adjustment room to play around with so time will tell how good and smooth I can make it for me. I am very happy with both now. After you have a month or so with the new legs, you should seek out a ride on another FZ, still with its stock suspension. I think you might be shocked and want yours back - quick. I have no doubt your right about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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