The cost of complexity

[faffi]

Reading about the difficulty of changing spark plugs in the FZ07 made me think about how often things are made more complex or difficult than they had to be. On my 1979 Kawasaki Z400 twin, for instance, the only thing I had to remove to change spark plugs was the caps, a one second job per side. That bike was well thought out for maintenance. To remove the fuel tank, you lifted the seat, removed the fuel line from the petcock and simply lifted off the tank. The 4 valves could be reach by unscrewing a threaded plug over each. Carbs could be synced by an easily reached screw and lock-nut. And of course it was dog slow.
 
On the other hand, even a simple machine can be made complex. The single cylinder 1987 Yamaha XT600Z took much longer to service than the Z400 twin, despite not featuring any special technology.
 
Now for the FZ. It is basically a simple machine made without much thought for the home mechanic. Like all the plastic hiding the fuel tank, the bolted on seat, the multi-piece front fender, the way the brake hoses are routed, the way the frame gets in the way of consumables like the spark plugs. Speaking of frames getting in the way; the original Honda CB750 should have its cylinder head re-torqued after 1000 km and again at regular intervals. But in order to do so, the engine had to come out of the frame. Many CB750s suffered leaks from the cylinder head, few had ever had their heads torqued.
 
How could Yamaha have made life simpler for the home mechanic regarding the FZ07? Well, they could have fitted spark plugs that could do 40,000 miles along with hydraulically adjusted valves. They could have used a single cover on the fuel tank held with a single screw. They could have fitted a one-piece front fender held by 4 bolts. They could have used a lockable seat. They could have used two full-length brake hoses for the front brake. Little things that would not have made much difference to cost or weight. 
 
So, what about you - are you bothered by stuff made stupid or difficult when they could have been made smarter or simpler? Or is the matter of little interest as long as the object - be that motorcycle or something else - perform as you want?
 
 

[avanti]

The 07 hardly has a corner on such design. One must weigh the "costs"/benefits of ownership of any vehicle. My Model A Ford I had as a kid was easy to work on, but would I want one today? Not on a bet, not even as a collector toy. There are simply too many other things that are too much fun (like the 07) and I'm willing to accept some poor maintenance design for the often incredible benefits. But, hey everyone decides for his or herself. Do you still have your Z400, faffi? All the best!

[c0al67]

Every bike I've ever owned had some issues like this. My cruiser (harley) was pretty low maintenance with its hydraulically self adjusting valves and belt drive that lasts 100kish miles. When I went to change the handle bars I discovered they were completely internally wired. It was a 5 or 6 hr job splicing and routing wires through the new bars and soldering and sleeving.
 
On the 07 installing the ejk took me forever because even after removing the panels and tank, my hands were just to big to get at the injectors. Lots of cussing went into that job lol

[faffi]

I agree that there will be issues with everything, and that often the user convenience will outweigh complexity. So perhaps I made my question a bit unclear. My point was that quite often it seems things are made difficult more or less on purpose, or at least things have not been considered from every angle. Like the old CB750, where Honda could easily have made the cylinder head bolts reachable with the engine in situ. Yamaha could easily have made parts simpler to remove and fit on the FZ09. Etc.
 
Look at cars. On a lot of Audi's it's a 3 hour job to replace the headlight bulbs - for a trained mechanic! On my Skoda, it's a 5-minute job. Same with most Volvos and Fords I have owned.

[faffi]

Oh, and no, I do not have the Z400 anymore.

[flooger]

On the 07 installing the ejk took me forever because even after removing the panels and tank, my hands were just to big to get at the injectors. Lots of cussing went into that job lol

 This is my favorite opportunity to teach the wife mechanical stuff. "Honey! Get your little hands over here I need help!"

[johnakay]

these days spark plug last longer than the old models.
since 2003 when I bought a fazer 600 fox eye I've never touched or changed a spark plug.
all I did was to changed oil maybe adjust the chain but thats it. I did over 14,00 miles on my fazer.
had a kawasaki 650F,Honda NC 700 and now the tracer.
if its running ok leave alone just change oil and filter.

[faffi]

That's why I was surprised people complain plugs only last 8-12k - my car, with both compressor and turbo has 50k spark plug replacement intervals.

[yamahaha]

My old Z1 Kawasaki was a dream to work on compared to bikes I've had since. Loved the locking hindged seat for battery, air filter, and storage.
It was relatively easy to split the swingarm to install a chain.
I had the engine in and out a couple times - always by myself.
I could pull the bowls off the carbs in place to change jetting or free up a sticky needle/seat.
Nowadays I sweat bullets working on some bikes. Yep, changing plugs on the 07 is no picknik the first time.

[ralph]

Dont think you will find many engines that rev like the 07 with hydraulic or
screw and lock nut valve adjusters, but it would have made things easier
if you did not have to remove a load of tupperware to get the tank off.
I have a W800 Kwaker two bolts two connectors and a fuel line and the tanks
off and wile it is shim under follower valve gear you can just push the rocker
sidways to remove the follower and shim no need to mess with the cam shaft
but then again it's red lined at 7k the 07 is good for another 26 hp and 10 mpg
from near the same size engine.
 

[gregjet]

Honda has had screw/nut adjusting rockers for a very long time that happily do insane rpm and are very reliable.

[fz07nc]

On the 07 installing the ejk took me forever because even after removing the panels and tank, my hands were just to big to get at the injectors. Lots of cussing went into that job lol

 This is my favorite opportunity to teach the wife mechanical stuff. "Honey! Get your little hands over here I need help!"

Couples that work on their bike together, stay together     

[fz07nc]

Reading about the difficulty of changing spark plugs in the FZ07 made me think about how often things are made more complex or difficult than they had to be. On my 1979 Kawasaki Z400 twin, for instance, the only thing I had to remove to change spark plugs was the caps, a one second job per side. That bike was well thought out for maintenance. To remove the fuel tank, you lifted the seat, removed the fuel line from the petcock and simply lifted off the tank. The 4 valves could be reach by unscrewing a threaded plug over each. Carbs could be synced by an easily reached screw and lock-nut. And of course it was dog slow. 
On the other hand, even a simple machine can be made complex. The single cylinder 1987 Yamaha XT600Z took much longer to service than the Z400 twin, despite not featuring any special technology.
 
Now for the FZ. It is basically a simple machine made without much thought for the home mechanic. Like all the plastic hiding the fuel tank, the bolted on seat, the multi-piece front fender, the way the brake hoses are routed, the way the frame gets in the way of consumables like the spark plugs. Speaking of frames getting in the way; the original Honda CB750 should have its cylinder head re-torqued after 1000 km and again at regular intervals. But in order to do so, the engine had to come out of the frame. Many CB750s suffered leaks from the cylinder head, few had ever had their heads torqued.
 
How could Yamaha have made life simpler for the home mechanic regarding the FZ07? Well, they could have fitted spark plugs that could do 40,000 miles along with hydraulically adjusted valves. They could have used a single cover on the fuel tank held with a single screw. They could have fitted a one-piece front fender held by 4 bolts. They could have used a lockable seat. They could have used two full-length brake hoses for the front brake. Little things that would not have made much difference to cost or weight. 
 
So, what about you - are you bothered by stuff made stupid or difficult when they could have been made smarter or simpler? Or is the matter of little interest as long as the object - be that motorcycle or something else - perform as you want?
 

The difficult idea to consider [from a customer's point of view] is that there are often competing functional areas or departments at the OEM.  For example, a one piece cover on the fuel tank could be removed quickly, but it also may be more difficult to maintain tolerance/fit-up on each side.  With 2 pieces, you essentially have a flatter piece and more "slop" in your mold tolerance.  Consider also a bike that's low-sided on one side.... with a one piece tank cover design, the customer is now required to buy a part that may cost 2-2.5 times the cost of one side separate. 
It's unfortunate that design dilemmas are artificially cemented in the first couple years of a model year / design.  I believe the XSR 700 uses the same engine as the FZ07.  This means carrying over the same spark plugs with short service intervals.  
 
On the plus side, things like harness routing and cable lengths can be modified quite easily in model year updates.  That means, when the "customer" or "dealer" identifies some deficiency, Yamaha has an opportunity to decide if the modification and cost thereof is worth the improvement in serviceability, reliability, or performance.
 
On a totally different tangent, did anyone ever have a vehicle where an exhaust downpipe was located directly under the oil filter resulting in a grimy, smell mess at every oil change?  This was notorious on my 1999 Ford Taurus and absolutely made me grind my gears.  No amount of towels, newspaper, or other means could prevent all traces of oil from dripping onto the pipe.  That stunk.  Literally.
 

[c0al67]

 This is my favorite opportunity to teach the wife mechanical stuff. "Honey! Get your little hands over here I need help!"

Couples that work on their bike together, stay together    

You've obviously never witnessed me work on anything  8D  I nearly got divorced putting a crib together once 

[faffi]

 
On a totally different tangent, did anyone ever have a vehicle where an exhaust downpipe was located directly under the oil filter resulting in a grimy, smell mess at every oil change?  This was notorious on my 1999 Ford Taurus and absolutely made me grind my gears.  No amount of towels, newspaper, or other means could prevent all traces of oil from dripping onto the pipe.  That stunk.  Literally.
 

My former and now my son's CB400SF has the oil filter directly above the point where the 4 headers are about to merge into one, so yes.

[faffi]

The Honda CBX650/750 had hydraulic valve adjusment together with a 10,000 rpm redline and were safe to 10,700 rpm for short spells. The CX500 has pushrods and screw adjusters and a 9,700 rpm redline and were safe to 10500 rpm under acceleration. It had 12,000 km / 7,500 mi service intervals as well, back in 1978.

[Beemer]

Any difficulties in life I just pass off to being part of the grand design to make us work/struggle for our happiness. I could tell those plugs were going to be a PITA so I cursed them, eased the tank back on and took a nice ride to the shop. I will probably suffer 10 fold for the cursing and avoiding the work.
 
 
[video src=https://youtu.be/r95a3p8Os-w]

[DewMan]

Couples that work on their bike together, stay together    

You've obviously never witnessed me work on anything  8D  I nearly got divorced putting a crib together once 

Then I suggest keeping your wife as far away from IKEA as you can.  

[gregjet]

"The Honda CBX650/750 had hydraulic valve adjusment together with a 10,000 rpm redline and were safe to 10,700 rpm for short spells. The CX500 has pushrods and screw adjusters and a 9,700 rpm redline and were safe to 10500 rpm under acceleration. It had 12,000 km / 7,500 mi service intervals as well, back in 1978."
You forgot to mention that the valve and spark plug service was insanely easy.  Not so the cam chain adjuster repeated fixing.

[faffi]

They finally got the cam tensioner issue solved in 1981, although it had a shorter range so the cam chain had to be replaced prematurely. Choose your poison...

[peteinpa]

I think the "fake" tank is so if you crash, it's less expensive to replace.
 
Some painted steel tanks are $800 or more.
 
 

[faffi]

I seriously doubt any manufacturer care whether it cost a lot to fix or not - they just want to make money.

[gregjet]

At the risk of sounding "consipitory theory" I believe it is a deliberate decision to deter people from working on their own bikes and jacking up the service times to increase dealers profits. Easy to sell a model to the dealers if they are going to make more out of the services.
The number of things I have seen on motorcycles and cars that were stupid and obvious design that make working on a motor cycle more dificult when a simple and sometimes LESS expensive design would have mitigated the problem is astounding. Our beloved 07 has a few things that are obviously deliberate . The front completely useless horns on the airbox are a perfect example. They do NOTHING ...at all. Except make it impossible to remove the airbox without spending a expanded amount of time. I cut them off and the airbox comes out simply and easily without having to remove a number of things that do have to be removed with the stock "things". So they make a part, that you can't even see when the motorcycle is being ridden, that cost extra material to produce and make it harder to work on.
The front mudguard is the same. Extra bits that could have easily been designed one piece. Extra material and extra fittings and extra time to remove.
 
The cx500 cam chain tensioner  was easily and permanently fixeable by changing the fixed bolt to allow the tensioner to float and changing th direction of wrap of the metal base.. Removed the stress node at the point where the blade joined the bolt land.  That's what I did the second replace. Made a custom one.