Duder3000 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hey guys, New to this forum and motorcycling in general and I wanted to reach out to introduce myself and to see if you guys and help me with an issue that I'm having with my bike's clutch. At little background, I decided on the FZ07 to be my first bike from what I read online and from talking with family and friends who are regular riders. With it being my first bike I decided to buy a salvaged title as I may want to eventually turn it into a dedicated track bike. That remains to be seen but regardless I bought one that had been dropped on its left side with the damage primarily being taken by the handle bars and bodywork so nothing major at all. All of it has been fixed and the engine started up right away and runs smoothly and it only has 2170 miles on it. The only issue that I have is when I shift from N to either 1st or 2nd with the clutch lever fully pulled in the bike slams into gear and stalls the engine. There doesn't seem to be too much slack out on the cable and I can get roughly 45-50 degrees of travel out of the clutch lever on the side of the clutch cover which I assume would be sufficient to disengage the drive connection. I took the clutch cover off to see if as a result of the accident and the handle bars being radically bent that this would have somehow stripped the gears on either the pull lever shaft or the pull rod highlighted in the image below but they are both fine. Before I dig any deeper I'm looking to see if any of you have an insight on what else may be causing this issue. Your help would be greatly appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 First Welcome Second if the engine is off and the clutch pulled in and the gear is 1st or 2nd can you push the bike freely? There will be drag but you should be able to rol the bike back and forth fairly easily? If not, then you must adjust the clutch first as per the manual. If the clutch then is not engaging as it should, pulling the cover is the next step to take a good look at the diagram you have posted. If it were me, I would Pull the cable off the lever as well as the clutch arm at the engine Validate that there is proper lever trow from neutral (Furthest out) to when it runs up to the clutch and stops (That throw should be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch) Put the clutch cable back together and adjust cable per manual. Going to add, if it was dropped on that case or if whoever had it prior the salvage what did they do? I would be suspicious that the case was damaged this is a replacment and it was not put together correctly “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YZEtc Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 My guess is that the clutch plates are stuck together from the bike sitting for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duder3000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Gentlemen, thank you for the suggestions above and I can confirm the when in 1st gear the rear wheels does not want to move at all. The damage was on the left side and that crankcase cover had a small scuff so I think the overall damage was minimal but who knows. Based on how dirty it was it had been sitting in the yard for a while without moving, at least long enough a wasp nest to develop under the headlamp assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick97702 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I'd double check the cable tension. Left side drop is on the clutch lever. If it wasn't reinstalled correctly then it could have too much slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duder3000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Item number 8 in the diagram above moves around 45-50 degrees when I would pull in the clutch lever all the way. Should it be moving more than that, do you see close of 90 degrees of movement with yours? I played with the dial adjuster on the clutch lever and made sure I didn't have more than what was recommended as far as slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I'm with YZEtc...I have a Kawi Z1 that will do this if the last ride wasn't long enough to cook all the water out of the oil, if I parked it up for the winter with the oil showing at all milky then the steel plates would brown up (rust) and the clutch wouldn't release unless I took the clutch apart and sanded the steels until nice and clean. I can't see that a drop on the left side,with no damage to engine, could cause this symptom as long as the original type lever assy. is ok and the cable slack adjusted correctly. One thing you said did catch my attention, you said you're getting 45-50* swing on the clutch actuator arm (item #8) I'm getting substantially less than that on mine and it works fine...did you actually mean 45-50*? If so I would think maybe the rack and pinion assy. (item #11) isn't engaged with clutch actuating rod (the rack in this case) correctly. This could explain your symptom, however, how did it get that way in the first place? Unless of course the cover had been off and replaced before you got it, all speculation. Read in the manual as I believe you need to clock the lever correctly on install of the cover, a punch mark on the lever and a triangle on the cover has to align...page 5-56. Hopefully you haven't put the clutch cover back on so that you can make sure the arm is clocked correctly and if so then you could easily check the plates for sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duder3000 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, markstertt said: I'm with YZEtc...I have a Kawi Z1 that will do this if the last ride wasn't long enough to cook all the water out of the oil, if I parked it up for the winter with the oil showing at all milky then the steel plates would brown up (rust) and the clutch wouldn't release unless I took the clutch apart and sanded the steels until nice and clean. I can't see that a drop on the left side,with no damage to engine, could cause this symptom as long as the original type lever assy. is ok and the cable slack adjusted correctly. One thing you said did catch my attention, you said you're getting 45-50* swing on the clutch actuator arm (item #8) I'm getting substantially less than that on mine and it works fine...did you actually mean 45-50*? If so I would think maybe the rack and pinion assy. (item #11) isn't engaged with clutch actuating rod (the rack in this case) correctly. This could explain your symptom, however, how did it get that way in the first place? Unless of course the cover had been off and replaced before you got it, all speculation. Read in the manual as I believe you need to clock the lever correctly on install of the cover, a punch mark on the lever and a triangle on the cover has to align...page 5-56. Hopefully you haven't put the clutch cover back on so that you can make sure the arm is clocked correctly and if so then you could easily check the plates for sticking. Thanks for the input. I may have over-estimated the travel on item 8 as it was an estimation but I can confirm that when I had the cover off I was able to move item 8 with my fingers while when I had it on that wasn't possible so I assume it was properly engaged with actuating rod. I'll take the friction plates out tomorrow to see where they are at and report back. Enjoy the night. Best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Before taking the clutch apart, put the bike in 6th gear and rock it back and forth firmly. 90% of the time this will pop a frozen clutch loose. And you're not going to hurt anything doing this. Give it a shot before you jump off the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think the plates are in backwards 😇 Already he said, plates move when he had the cover off. If all is said and true then only proper adjustment must be “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 12 hours ago, shinyribs said: Before taking the clutch apart, put the bike in 6th gear and rock it back and forth firmly. 90% of the time this will pop a frozen clutch loose. And you're not going to hurt anything doing this. Give it a shot before you jump off the deep end. Good advice...I was thinking of a good push (engine off) with rider in the saddle shifting from neutral into 2nd as if attempting bump start. In the old days we had kick starters to help break the clutch loose, remember those? What about holding the front brake or better yet, put the front wheel against a wall, put the bike in a high gear, with clutch pulled in and hit the elec. starter? Too scary? I don't know, is this a bad suggestion? Duder3000...if you do decide to pull the clutch plates, note that there are 2 types of friction plates...5 small segment and 2 large segment...the manual shows the order and clocking of install but pay attention to alignment marks and order as you pull them, less confusing to me any way. Also, make sure when you put the cover on, that the align marks for the actuator lever #8 and cover are correct so that you get full travel pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, r1limited said: I think the plates are in backwards 😇 Already he said, plates move when he had the cover off. If all is said and true then only proper adjustment must be r1limited...no he actually didn't say he could move the plates with cover off...it would take superman to do this...he said that the actuating lever on the cover (item#8) moved when he had the cover off, as it should since it's not engaged with the clutch pull rod at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, markstertt said: r1limited...no he actually didn't say he could move the plates with cover off...it would take superman to do this...he said that the actuating lever on the cover (item#8) moved when he had the cover off, as it should since it's not engaged with the clutch pull rod at this point. I knew that Just making sure someone is paying attention “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, r1limited said: I knew that Just making sure someone is paying attention I always pay attention to what you say, I actually do read and reread your responses to see if you're messing with us...not sure, but I think you may have a wicked sense of humor and I know for sure from your posts that you are a 'character' and at my age, I've learned that there are to few characters to keep things interesting...lots of jerks but not enough characters...but I'm sure you knew that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duder3000 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 14 hours ago, shinyribs said: Before taking the clutch apart, put the bike in 6th gear and rock it back and forth firmly. 90% of the time this will pop a frozen clutch loose. And you're not going to hurt anything doing this. Give it a shot before you jump off the deep end. Ok, I took this shinyrib's suggestion as was able to get the clutch assembly to rotate while in 6th and a little in 1st gear but I'm not sure if that's a positive indication or not. I put the cover back on, adjusted the tension on the handlebars, and I'm now able to move the bike in first with the clutch lever pulled in. I don't have it fully buttoned up to where I've replaced the oil I've drained so I haven't started it up to see if it stalls when putting it into either 1st or 2nd gear with the clutch pulled in which started this. I did notice that when the bike is off and in 1st with the clutch lever on the handlebars pulled in the rear wheel is very hard to turn by hand in either direction for about the first 1/4 turn and then it's easy after that so itseems the problem still exists to a smaller degree. Does this suggest I need to adjust the springs on the friction plate or is there another issue at hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The rear wheel will never be 100% free with the clutch lever pulled in. It'll feel exactly as you described: stiff at first, then a little looser. Sounds like you're on the right path! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member fzar Posted February 18, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, shinyribs said: The rear wheel will never be 100% free with the clutch lever pulled in. It'll feel exactly as you described: stiff at first, then a little looser. Sounds like you're on the right path! This is correct, I mean start a functioning bike in 1st. gear clutch pulled in and you'll feel it try to creep forward. The clutch doesn't return the gearbox to a state of neutral it simply takes the pressure off the plates that engage the selected gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duder3000 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 Cool, I'll properly button it up and give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks for you help guys and enjoy what's left of your weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Adjusted Cable Thanks R1 “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 PS...no need to drain any oil with this bike on the side stand, sump level is well below clutch cavity. I know you probably wanted to change it anyway but just so you and others know. As long as we're talking clutches, why are there 2 types of friction plates? The 2 different plates are first and last in the stack with the other 5 in between...all steels are identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 51 minutes ago, markstertt said: PS...no need to drain any oil with this bike on the side stand, sump level is well below clutch cavity. I know you probably wanted to change it anyway but just so you and others know. As long as we're talking clutches, why are there 2 types of friction plates? The 2 different plates are first and last in the stack with the other 5 in between...all steels are identical. I don't know about these bikes in particular, but typically when the outer frictions are different than the inner fristions it's due to a different cut in the friction material that forces the oil to stay between the plates a little longer than usual. The drain slots point the other direction. Allows for a little softer clutch engagement if you just drop the hammer on it. Used to spin them around "backwards" on my old CB's to allow the clutch to be snappier.That, and drilled a few more drain holes in the clutch hub. Made the oil drain out faster and you had a clutch that engaged NOW. Took a little getting used to lol. Totally worth it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 hours ago, shinyribs said: I don't know about these bikes in particular, but typically when the outer frictions are different than the inner fristions it's due to a different cut in the friction material that forces the oil to stay between the plates a little longer than usual. The drain slots point the other direction. Allows for a little softer clutch engagement if you just drop the hammer on it. Used to spin them around "backwards" on my old CB's to allow the clutch to be snappier.That, and drilled a few more drain holes in the clutch hub. Made the oil drain out faster and you had a clutch that engaged NOW. Took a little getting used to lol. Totally worth it, though. Interesting, makes sense...I wonder why the first friction plate under the pressure plate is clocked so as to not align with the full length slots in the basket? If I'm reading the manual right any way and it's how mine is assembled but for the life of me I don't understand why. Any ideas on that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, markstertt said: Interesting, makes sense...I wonder why the first friction plate under the pressure plate is clocked so as to not align with the full length slots in the basket? If I'm reading the manual right any way and it's how mine is assembled but for the life of me I don't understand why. Any ideas on that one? Sorry boss, no experience on that, so I can't really say. But you got me curious so I looked at a parts diagram. The inner and outer frictions are the same part number, and all the inner frictions are another number. So my theory about swirl cuts is likely wrong. Maybe the outer frictions are a different material on one side of the plate to interface with the aluminum of the clutch hub and basket without causing damage/ undue abrasion? Is it possible they're positioned in such a way that it won't rotate and eat up the clutch hub? Perhaps they're in a static position that keeps them from rotating separately from the hub and pressure plate and they just provides a friction area for the next steel to grip on- preserving the aluminum surfaces around them. Y'all got me wanting to pull my clutch out now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, shinyribs said: Y'all got me wanting to pull my clutch out now... Me Imma gonna go yank a chain “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 hours ago, shinyribs said: Sorry boss, no experience on that, so I can't really say. But you got me curious so I looked at a parts diagram. The inner and outer frictions are the same part number, and all the inner frictions are another number. So my theory about swirl cuts is likely wrong. Maybe the outer frictions are a different material on one side of the plate to interface with the aluminum of the clutch hub and basket without causing damage/ undue abrasion? Is it possible they're positioned in such a way that it won't rotate and eat up the clutch hub? Perhaps they're in a static position that keeps them from rotating separately from the hub and pressure plate and they just provides a friction area for the next steel to grip on- preserving the aluminum surfaces around them. Y'all got me wanting to pull my clutch out now... Yeh, the 2 type 'A' plates have 36 dark chestnut colored friction segments while the 5 type 'B's' having 48 (smaller) amber colored friction segments(so more radial slots). Definitely different spec plates but each is same on both sides. You might not want to pull the clutch cover, you'll see how loose the oil pump chain is and wonder if it shouldn't have a little tension device or slipper. I was also surprised at how much space there is in there, that cover has cast in accent bumps etc. that are just there for looks, no reason to clear what isn't underneath. I'd like to machine a flat alloy plate for the base cover with water pump pad and a separate removable clutch cover with actuator rod boss...would be nice for racers but kind of overkill for street guys... 3 hours ago, r1limited said: Me Imma gonna go yank a chain Thought about it but to cold and windy for my scrawny bones...so covered my chain yanker and cut some wood for a dog ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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