r1limited Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 So my 840 year old vacum setup bit the dust, so I already designed and built a DiY using trans fluid to get me by. Looking for a replacement and being as cheap as I am I first looked at The Vacummate which is what Yamaha recommends, well F**K that at 500 plus bucks, I just built one for $6 and change So my question is, I have been playing with the idea of the digital as HVAC guys have plenty they pretty much do the same thing. However, most HVAC digitals I have seen are two port would need a 4 have yet to see one. Now comes the question Plus or minus Pro and Con on the use of Digital over Vacum. The DiY is great for a quick adjust but if you are finite anal as I am? 0.02psi off would drive me nuts “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 The main thing I can see as an advantage of a mech. one is humans are pretty good at seeing a pattern . An experienced eye can average the indicated position. A digital number type is going to be hard to read fast changing numbers. However if you have a complex digital one they can often to an electronic damping for you by anti ailising software for you. The needle can bounce around pretty masively at low revs. Ieven tried smallish resonance chambers to damp my dial vacuum gagues with only marginal success. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 @gregjetI am almost tempted to pick a cheap digital up just to do a side by side. My old school vacum gauges just simply rotted up and were fairly accurate. I built a manometer Saturday and just got to thinking what the comparison would be and or if anyone had experiance. So I spent an hour drafting out a couple of designs as what I see others do is like WTF why are these so bloody freakin huge. Talk about back yard trailer trash mecha-nics “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Part of the reason the liquid ones are so huge is the problems of getting sufficient mass of indicator AND sufficient cross section AND surface tension problems. I suspect the mercury ones can be a lot smaller if designed properly, because of the greater mass and lack of surface tension but you still need a decent crossectional area. I like the steel rod idea ones though but they are so expensive. A digital one with adjustable electronic damping would be the way though. Could be quite small. Maybe even a set of transducers and a laptop with appropiate software. Mobile phone even. Actually a well designed set could live permanently in the flow area and be connected as required. They could be pretty small. Not sure but the crossection of the top of a 6mm bolt would possibly be enough. All the damping could be done with changeable algorithims because the read speed would be too high to use raw readings. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Take a gander at Vacummate The Motion Pro is about a foot tall, as are most of the commercial. “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 A set of gauges like these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076SVBXQQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B076SVBXQQ&pd_rd_wg=2GIvm&pd_rd_r=EF2N7GAH8CG6NJCC5VGZ&pd_rd_w=naMyg have a small needle valve on each valve. Start with the valve closed and open until vacuum can be read but the needle is not bouncing about. Also look like the adapters have a fairly small tube that will also help damp out the pulses. Using a set of T connectors and hoses, you can apply a vacuum to all 4 gauges from one source to make sure that are all reading the same. I've a set of gauges similar (but not as nice) to these that I've used on twins and 4s since the 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 @rick that was my old set I mean CB750 old set of gauges where. I wa slooking to replacethem as that is what I like using. “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 This is what I have. I used it successfully (I hope) to do the throttle body valve adjust. If I'm not mistaken it reads the difference between the two ports. I made sure that my tubing was all equal, etc and was happy with the results. It connects to your phone and was easy to use for me. Not particularly cheap though. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018VO5GLO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Zephyr said: This is what I have. I used it successfully (I hope) to do the throttle body valve adjust. If I'm not mistaken it reads the difference between the two ports. I made sure that my tubing was all equal, etc and was happy with the results. It connects to your phone and was easy to use for me. Not particularly cheap though. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018VO5GLO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That is actually pretty cool I assume you can view the difference? “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 That is pretty cool. Not clear if it'll read out both cylinders on the same screen. But still, we're only suppose to adjust one to the other, so take a read on the reference and then just match to it. 19 hours ago, r1limited said: @rick that was my old set I mean CB750 old set of gauges where. I wa slooking to replacethem as that is what I like using. I bought a 1972 CB500 back in 1974 and iirc, my gauge set came not too much later. Can you say J.C. Whitney? And less than 20 bucks back then. Instead of needle valves, mine came with clamps that crimped the rubber tubes. That never worked. I discovered that a 23-27g syringe needle provided about the right restriction to dampen the pulses. Just shoved the hub of the needle up into the hose end to make a seal for the needle. . I've also taken the guts of those gauges out of their cans to tweak the brass tube in order to make them read the same and lube the gears now and then. Over 40 years old and still workin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/27/2018 at 2:41 AM, r1limited said: That is actually pretty cool I assume you can view the difference? Here is a screenshot from my phone (your phone is the user interface via bluetooth & their app). It does not show each port value, but shows the pressure difference across the two ports. If there is suction on left port then the value is positive and negative if there is suction on the right port. If there is positive pressure on the ports, then the values reverse. There is an option to "zero" the device and also adjust the ambient pressure value to your elevation (I assume). It has trending graph and table view which display time and value, but I prefer just the current value. So essentially it is a digital version of the DIY fluid filled U-tube units that you have seen, but probably a bit more accurate and tons more convenient. You can also adjusts the units as well. I am used to inches of water so that is what I used, which is a smaller base value (more accurate) than the manual's use of kPa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 This is a differential measurement which means you could connect BOTH carbs vacuum and adjust for a minimium reading. The ultimate easy for a twin. Pity they are a bit pricey ( says the man that just bought a Hantek laptop ocilloscope for twice as much) but it would have to measured individaully for more than 3 cyl ( you could adjust two others to a common one in a triple). Nice piece of useful kit though. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Pretty cool. An audible DING from the phone when balance is reached would be even cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 7 hours ago, rick said: Pretty cool. An audible DING from the phone when balance is reached would be even cooler. That would be cool, but you just can't get them to balance to a perfect neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 15 hours ago, Zephyr said: That would be cool, but you just can't get them to balance to a perfect neutral. Was kinda joking about that. Reading to .01" water, I suspect just getting it fairly close should be plenty good enough. That this adjustment really only has meaning at idle, well, life is always happier at 4k RPM and up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 16 hours ago, rick said: Was kinda joking about that. Reading to .01" water, I suspect just getting it fairly close should be plenty good enough. That this adjustment really only has meaning at idle, well, life is always happier at 4k RPM and up. Ima Jedi master and balance the carbs using the force. “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator mjh937 Posted April 1, 2018 Global Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2018 I am not a Jedi, so I balance mine using my checkbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 10 hours ago, mjh937 said: I am not a Jedi, so I balance mine using my checkbook. infedel “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I'm a firm believer at giving thought to throwing money at an issue and then finding a cheaper, erm, I mean more frugal way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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