Consider a chain oiler

[shinyribs]

I installed an automatic chain oiler a few thousand miles ago. My first experience with one and I wasn't sure what to expect, but the results so far have been so impressive that I thought I'd mention it for others than haven't considered the idea. 

Context. I put almost 30,000 miles on my 07 without ever needing sprockets, but I "wore out" 3 DID chains. Getting 10,000 miles out of a chain is about my norm, but I've never had a chain actually wear out ( or "stretch"), they just always start becoming stiff and I toss them. I always do a post mortem on the stiff links to see if my kerosene washes have dissolved away the internal grease. I never saw that happen. The orings just get old and hard creating the stiffness. 

All I wanted to accomplish with an auto oiler was no more chain maintenance. I didn't realize that (Scottoiler brand , at least) makes their oil to work in such a way that it will fling off (more on that in a bit) in order to clean the chain rather than accumulating. So, not only do you no longer have to spray lube on the chain ( not a big deal), you no longer have to scrub the chain. And I'm sick and tired of scrubbing chains. 

Now, expecting oil fling off sounds bad, and it is, but adjusted properly it's not really the issue you think it would be. When you use spray lubes and you take off before it dries you'll get massive fling off because it's ALL trying to fling off once you get to speed. Then it dries on wherever it landed and you have to scrub that off in it's dried form, which sucks. The auto oiler fling off isn't the same. First of all, you have to adjust the flow of the system and there's just a very little amount of fling off to begin with. What does fling off is a very light, non-drying, not sticky, not greasy speck of oil. Wipes right off with a paper towel and no effort. 

I've been using BelRay Super Clean chain lube for many years. It's always been 100% free of any fling off for me. Kerosene dissolves it easily, but you have to scrub it off the chain with kero, them wash the chain and surrounding area with dish soap to remove the kero residue. Then you have to dry the chain completely to reapply the next coat of lube. Any kero residue left behind won't evaporate and will attract dust and cause the next costing of lube to stay dissolved and fling off. Doing this weekly on up to three chains was getting really, really, really old. I experimented with other lubes and cleaners, but everything was messy compared to this Super Clean/ kero system. It worked well, but you had to put in the effort.

So I got the most basic oiler I could find and installed it to the manufacturers recommendations. Scottoiler vacuum system. No pumps, the oil is gravity fed. No electronics or arming switches. It has a valve that turns the oil off when you park the bike that operates off engine vacuum. Turn the engine off and the system stops. Initial installation says to set the drip rate at one drop every 60 seconds. That ended up being more than I needed, but it's probably perfect for someone that runs freeway constantly.  Nothing to remember, nothing to mess with. It just works in the background while you ride. 

Does it work in the background while you ride? Oh, yeah! My chain always looks wet now, but never costed in any grit. I live on a gravel road and no-fling lubes always keep a slight tackiness that can hold on to dirt/grit. But with the auto oiler, it's expected that with fling off when the oil goes with it. And apparently it works perfectly! I will get a few speckled on my rear rim after a couple tanks of fuel ( 225-250 miles), but the chain always looks clean and shiny without me ever having to clean it. I just had to slow the drip rate a few notches as it was a touch excessive at first. 

Goal accomplished. I no longer have to clean or lube chains and the system runs automatically. Can't get better than that, right? Actually, it does get better. I didn't realize how bad these no-fling lubes were. Hindsight being 20-20 it's obvious now. It's not really lube. We're putting basically glue on there. Well, something gluey/sticky is not great at cutting friction. Actually liquid oil is. I didn't realize how much decel chain whip was a result of a chain being bathed in goop. With a properly oiled chain you don't get that weird sensation/noises - it runs smooth and silent. Silent! The first thing I noticed was how quiet the chain once, then I noticed smooth the night felt. And to prove it to myself that I want experiencing placebo effect the bike immediately, and consistently, now gets another 3 mpg. That's a huge friction difference, and yes, the bike feels noticably peppier now that it's not having to work again a chain restricted with a coating of no-fling goop all over it. I should've done this years ago! 

At my rate, it looks like my chain oiler reservoir will going to last several thousand miles between refills. If I can get the full 6,000 mile interval that others claim then refilling the system will coincide with oil changes. If not, then refills will coincide with rear tire changes. Either way, it's a truly simple system that genuinely runs in the background without you. It gives you a well oiled, clean and smooth running chain with zero effort other than wiping off a few speckled every could hundred miles. My bikes get weekly washes and honestly it's not even with fling off from one Saturday to the next to even care about. 

$135 well invested IMO. At the rate I was using canned lubes and kero it will pay for itself in about 18 months. After that it took cost me about $8/yr in replacement oil. And installed carefully it's nearly invisible on the bike. No need for ridiculous zip ties and hose clamps all over your beautiful bike. This oil dripper peaking under my swingarm is the only clue that it's there. Other than a small Scottoiler decal on the backside of my fly screen to remind me to check the reservoir tucked under the seat occasionally. 

Think about it. Feels like an old man move, but it's been brilliant these past few months. 

 

Ride safe

 

[Pursuvant]

Good write up. Scottoiler minimalist, I like that.

A low side crash last year (maintenance mistake on my part) has me paranoid about any kind of lube getting on a tire. I'm going to just watch this thread & think for awhile

 

[Lone Wolf]

48 minutes ago, Pursuvant said:

...paranoid about any kind of lube getting on a tire. 

Zero lube gets on the rubber that meets the road.

Most of the "fling" will get on the rim, possibly a bit of spatter on the sidewall.

I have the identical, simple vacuum operated Scottoiler on one of my Honda 750's after putting a very expensive DID chain on that I wanted to take good care of.

Been on 2 years and VERY impressed with the oiler, how clean my chain remains, and it is always slightly wet in appearance. You are supposed to adjust it so that it puts out about one drop every 60 seconds, I cut mine back to about 2 minutes.

No need for the electronic ones, just one more thing to go wrong and if you didn't notice it then you have a dry chain. The slightest vacuum on this thing causes a piston to move within the clear case, it is obvious when it opens, and when it closes when shut the engine off.

I just ordered one of these for my other bike but it hasn't arrived yet, they make one for the MT-07 here https://www.snoto.de/en/produkt/cleandisc-chainguard-yamaha-mt07-xsr700/

Edited April 16, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[shinyribs]

4 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

Good write up. Scottoiler minimalist, I like that.

A low side crash last year (maintenance mistake on my part) has me paranoid about any kind of lube getting on a tire. I'm going to just watch this thread & think for awhile

 

That's a valid concern. I looked in to how these these operate and there's no such thing as it "hanging open" and flooding oil everywhere. An electronic one with a pump could. 

Even if the vacuum valve did hang in the open position, the metering device is mechanical and can only deliver the 1 or 2 drops per minute that you've set it at. 

Imo, the possible failure would be if the line carrying the oil got cut or pinched and started dripping oil somewhere else. Careful installation should handle that issue. 

 

 

[shinyribs]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Zero lube gets on the rubber that meets the road.

Most of the "fling" will get on the rim, possibly a bit of spatter on the sidewall.

I have the identical, simple vacuum operated Scottoiler on one of my Honda 750's after putting a very expensive DID chain on that I wanted to take good care of.

Been on 2 years and VERY impressed with the oiler, how clean my chain remains, and it is always slightly wet in appearance. You are supposed to adjust it so that it puts out about one drop every 60 seconds, I cut mine back to about 2 minutes.

No need for the electronic ones, just one more thing to go wrong and if you didn't notice it then you have a dry chain. The slightest vacuum on this thing causes a piston to move within the clear case, it is obvious when it opens, and when it closes when shut the engine off.

I just ordered one of these for my other bike but it hasn't arrived yet, they make one for the MT-07 here https://www.snoto.de/en/produkt/cleandisc-chainguard-yamaha-mt07-xsr700/

I can't see why those would be very effective. It would be a huge hassle if you were cleaning and lubing manually how I used to, but with an auto oiler that's no longer an issue! 

[cornerslider]

Thank you, for a great write-up. How am I just hearing about this now????? This seems like a BRILLIANT idea!!! I "Googled" them, and they have been around for 35 years. They even stock them at www.revzilla.com....  I truly hate everything chain related- always messy/attracting dirt & grime, and wearing chains out. After reading this write-up, I'll likely be ordering one for my street bike. Their website references "track-use". I would think that tech-inspection might have an issue with this? Anybody ever had any experience with this on track???? 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, shinyribs said:

...It would be a huge hassle if you were cleaning and lubing manually how I used to, but with an auto oiler that's no longer an issue! 

Before I got a Scottoiler, I would brush kerosene along the lower run of chain and move rear wheel by hand to clean (bike on stand).

I would use a Grease Ninja to spray on lube, you want it applied to the "inside" so centrifugal force places lube outward across the O-rings. I never worked from the sprocket region, so that guard would not have been in my way.

The real beauty of that "Cleandisc" brand chain guard extension is for use with auto oilers such as the Scottoiler.

After using my Scottoiler for 2 years I can testify there is more lube on the rim, and grime sticks to that surface (OK with me as my chain stayed very clean, O-rings nice and wet, not dried and cracking).

So with this  Cleandisc brand chain guard extension I hope to have best of both worlds. Clean chain, and rim.

[shinyribs]

5 hours ago, cornerslider said:

Thank you, for a great write-up. How am I just hearing about this now????? This seems like a BRILLIANT idea!!! I "Googled" them, and they have been around for 35 years. They even stock them at www.revzilla.com....  I truly hate everything chain related- always messy/attracting dirt & grime, and wearing chains out. After reading this write-up, I'll likely be ordering one for my street bike. Their website references "track-use". I would think that tech-inspection might have an issue with this? Anybody ever had any experience with this on track???? 

Yeah, I'd definitely ask a tech inspector first. Personally, I wouldn't be worried about one for track use at all, but I'd totally understand why they would be disallowed. Lots of benign things were forbidden on track when I was racing. Can't blame them for erring on the side of caution. I'm not sure I'd trust an electronic one as it could decide to just start pumping, but guys don't seem to have any complaints with them. 

The vacuum system appealed to me, but there are other mechanical/non-electronic oilers available. Motion activated and even wind powered ones! And, no, the wind powered ones don't have a little windmill on them. Check em out. They're pretty interesting. 

[cornerslider]

Ironically, I'm starting working @ Tech inspection this year.... I'm definitely going to ask the lead Tech in a couple weeks!

[shinyribs]

Blind leading the blind?

[sweetscience]

Thank you guys for the link.  This should save me a lot of time.  

The Snoto.de splatter guard just installed.  Had to pull out the old dremel to accomodate the Gilles chain adjuster.  Fitment looks good.  

Need to clean the chain, and test it this weekend if weather permits.

[Pursuvant]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:45 AM, shinyribs said:

I installed an automatic chain oiler a few thousand miles ago...

Context... Getting 10,000 miles out of a chain is about my norm, but I've never had a chain... ( "stretch"), they just...becoming stiff...post mortem on the stiff links to see if my kerosene washes have dissolved away the internal grease. I never saw that happen. The orings just get old and hard creating the stiffness. 

... oil fling off sounds bad, and it is, but adjusted properly it's not really the issue you think it is...didn't realize how bad these no-fling lubes were.

 I didn't realize how much decel chain whip was a result of a chain being bathed in goop. With a properly oiled chain you don't get that weird sensation/noises - it runs smooth and silent. Silent! ...the bike immediately, and consistently, now gets another 3 mpg. That's a huge friction difference, and yes, the bike feels noticably peppier now that it's not having to work again a chain restricted with a coating of no-fling goop all over it. I should've done this years ago! 

$135 well invested IMO. At the rate I was using canned lubes and kero it will pay for itself in about 18 months. After that it took cost me about $8/yr in replacement oil. 

Plenty of good stuff in @shinyribs

 I got tired of goop last season for all of shinyribs well made reasons.

Why not scottoiler with an unsealed race/quality chain, find one for about $75? Because that's a great payback on scottoiler. Cut the price of chains I currently buy in half. If you got the oil drip....

[Lone Wolf]

9 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

Why not scottoiler with an unsealed race/quality chain, find one for about $75? Because that's a great payback on scottoiler. Cut the price of chains I currently buy in half. If you got the oil drip....

I think that modern race bikes do used sealed chains. I run a higher end DID, and with the better chains you get the "X" rings instead of "O" rings for reduced friction and better retention of the lubricant.

For me personally, the Scottoiler helps keep everything slightly wet, and I get peace of mind that my "X-O" rings aren't drying out, breaking apart, and sticking out like broken bits of straw out of my chain. That is what happens with neglected chains, or low quality rings (which are often found on the original chains to save cost)

Having personally neglected chains in my younger years - and suffered the consequences - I seek out the better quality chains kind of like better tires rather than most affordable.

https://www.motorcycle.com/ask-mo-anything/ask-mo-anything-motogp-drive-chain.html

...claims its X-ring design greatly reduces friction compared to an O-ring chain. The “No-ring” days, when people were looking for every ½-hp on their RS125s, seems to be just about over. Some things, like drive chains, may be too highly evolved for even the big factory teams to improve upon. At around $140 on Amazon, the ERV might be the most affordable component on a MotoGP bike. As for lube, the sealed X-ring design isn’t going to need anything, especially if it’s being replaced every 300 miles. 

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/d-i-ds-special-edition-motorcycle-chain-honors-motogp-legend/

X-rings seal more effectively than O-rings. Hence why D.I.D.’s X-ring motorcycle chains have significantly longer chain lives than its O-ring ones. Plus, X-rings don’t deform as much under stress as O-rings have a smaller sealing surface area, Cycle World explains. That’s important for racing because it cuts down on power-sapping chain drag. And it’s why Valentino Rossi, as well as many motocrossers and other bike racers, often use X-ring chains. Also, since X-ring chains are meant for racing, they’re often stronger than O-ring ones.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[shinyribs]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:09 AM, Pursuvant said:

Plenty of good stuff in @shinyribs

 I got tired of goop last season for all of shinyribs well made reasons.

Why not scottoiler with an unsealed race/quality chain, find one for about $75? Because that's a great payback on scottoiler. Cut the price of chains I currently buy in half. If you got the oil drip....

I've been thinking about unsealed chains also. I've used them in the past and the difference in rolling resistance is huge. If the oiler does it's job, I don't see the need for a sealed chain anymore. 

 

I'd gotten pretty spoiled to the 53mpg my FZ07 averaged. When I first got the FZ09 I was getting 38-40 mpg ( exact same size fuel tank/low fuel warning), and it was pretty unhappy about that. For reasons I can't explain, a Yoshimura Y series exhaust took that bike up to 42-44 mpg consistently. With the chain oiler I'm seeing 48-49mpg regularly. 

 

I'm not really chasing fuel mileage, but I feel like it's a decent way to gauge real world results. 

[Lone Wolf]

6 hours ago, shinyribs said:

... If the oiler does it's job, I don't see the need for a sealed chain anymore. 

The mfg of your oiler, Scottoiler has a 15 pg article that is pretty interesting.

They are big fans of O-ring chains. The article describes how the Scottoiler extends the life of O-rings by keeping them moist so they don't crack and break, while reducing friction.

https://www.scottoiler.com/motorcyclechainoilers/xmas/ScottoilerKnowledgeWorkshopv1.pdf

Pg 6:

"O-RING CHAINS: THE BIGGEST INNOVATION FOR MOTORCYCLE CHAINS IN DECADES

Before the introduction of sealed chains motorcyclists had to constantly strip down the chain from the bike and cook it in a grease-pan before hanging it up to dry. This would allow the lubricant to reach the inside of the chain, the pins and bushings where it was desperately needed. A filthy job and a real time-suck when you just wanted to go out for a quick ride.

Luckily, modern motorcycle chains are equipped with O-ring (or X- or Z-ring) seals. These seals are intended to keep a lubricant sealed inside the chain, between the pin and bush, exactly where it’s needed, and keep dirt and grit out of this important contact area. The lubricant is sealed in for the entire life of the chain and does not need to be changed.

...However the main reason for modern chains to fail is the loss of seal integrity."

Edited June 21, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[Pursuvant]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:50 AM, shinyribs said:

I've been thinking about unsealed chains also. I've used them in the past and the difference in rolling resistance is huge....

With the chain oiler I'm seeing 48-49mpg regularly. 

 

I'm not really chasing fuel mileage, but I feel like it's a decent way to gauge real world results. 

My first search for an unsealed chain, I happened upon an RK product by category/application chart. They don't seem to have any 525 unsealed chain for 700cc bikes.

Just my first look, I'll try again

[Kurt]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:45 AM, shinyribs said:

So I got the most basic oiler I could find and installed it to the manufacturers recommendations. Scottoiler vacuum system.

 

I just picked one of these up and am currently working out the best place to install. Did you go with the trunk? If so did you have to drill to run the tube down to the chain oiler? It seems like it takes up the space the tools would normally sit, so I am considering mounting it outside the trunk near the passenger pegs. Figured I'd ask to see what you did and if you're happy with where it is.

Also, did you just tap into the nipple at the throttle bodies for vacuum? I believe it is used to sync the carbs, the instructions mention some tubing with a check valve but I cant find that on my bike, I am thinking it may be an emissions thing my bike doesn't have.

[shinyribs]

I can post some pics this evening, but mine is mounted on a FZ 09. The main is you can't mount it completely flat. It needs to be tilted with to keep the vent open. 

I did mount directly to a throttle body nipple. There's no tubing or check valves on the bike itself. All the vacuum plumbing material should come included with the kit. Mine came with several different fittings and mounts, but no actual check valve. Thinking of how the system works, I can't think of how a check valve would operate on the system. 

Do you have a Scott oiler or another brand? 

 

[Kurt]

1 hour ago, shinyribs said:

I can post some pics this evening, but mine is mounted on a FZ 09. The main is you can't mount it completely flat. It needs to be tilted with to keep the vent open. 

I did mount directly to a throttle body nipple. There's no tubing or check valves on the bike itself. All the vacuum plumbing material should come included with the kit. Mine came with several different fittings and mounts, but no actual check valve. Thinking of how the system works, I can't think of how a check valve would operate on the system. 

Do you have a Scott oiler or another brand? 

 

I got the Scottoiler vacuum based model. Just to be clear the check valve is just part of some system on the FZ-07 that they mention you can tap into in their instructions, not part of the stuff in the kit, I have a feeling its something on the European models though. I think at this point its just a matter of deciding if I want to put the reservoir in the trunk or not: trunk space and a marginally easier tubing path vs cleaner install and figuring out how to get the tubing from the trunk to the nozzle.

[Jerzee]

In the pictures toward the bottom, where they say 2016 onward, it looks like they have a fitting they simple shove over the vacuum opening on the injector with 'just a cap on it', I think the right hand side of the bike (if I remember correctly). The cap is removed when you balance the tow cylinders vacuum. Take of the cap, attach the fitting and tubing,and you should be good to go.

[Pursuvant]

6 hours ago, Jerzee said:

In the pictures toward the bottom, where they say 2016 onward, it looks like they have a fitting they simple shove over the vacuum opening on the injector with 'just a cap on it', I think the right hand side of the bike (if I remember correctly). The cap is removed when you balance the tow cylinders vacuum. Take of the cap, attach the fitting and tubing,and you should be good to go.

Yes, I think I would avoid Cyl 1 throttle body vacuum line - it's got the air pressure sensor on it, up under the tank

[shinyribs]

I doubt it's much use, but here's how mine is mounted. I can't remember if the 07 has the same compartment between the tank and battery or not.

 

Just keep the vent /fill cap accessible and angled up enough to not puke on you. Even if it doesn't puke out of the vent, if the vent gets oil in it, it won't allow the oil to drain down to the chain. I'm sure you already understand that, but throwing it out there anyway. 

 

[Kurt]

47 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

I doubt it's much use, but here's how mine is mounted. I can't remember if the 07 has the same compartment between the tank and battery or not.

 

Just keep the vent /fill cap accessible and angled up enough to not puke on you. Even if it doesn't puke out of the vent, if the vent gets oil in it, it won't allow the oil to drain down to the chain. I'm sure you already understand that, but throwing it out there anyway. 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I ended up going with the fitting that the instructions state is in 2016+ even though my bike is a 2015.

 

The 07 doesn't have the same compartment as the 09 unfortunately, but I was able to use the pillion trunk space and still fit  the toolkit and everything, though it is pretty snug now.

 

I was also able to run the hose down  through the bodywork without having to drill or cut anything (this was a high priority for me just in case I decide to remove this someday), its just tucked right up against the frame. It was kind of a pain dealing with the tubing around the swing arm, I'm definitely going to be watching it like a hawk for a while making sure nothing rubs, hopefully the adhesive on their included tube guide things is reliable.